tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post4813883717649058990..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: How Vryce (our DF Knight) Doesn't Get KilledPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-82042972414425119612013-03-25T11:45:48.502-04:002013-03-25T11:45:48.502-04:00Tunnels to craw through, bad footing all over the ...Tunnels to craw through, bad footing all over the place (slick floors, muck, rough floors), occasionally low ceilings, darkness, etc.<br /><br />They address them all as best they can, and Two-Handed Sword-24 helps a huge amount. The tougher the terrain and the worse the circumstances, the slower they move through and the quicker they resort to buff spells and support tactics. Or flat-out fight avoidance.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-33058406968541680712013-03-25T11:37:22.595-04:002013-03-25T11:37:22.595-04:00It's true! A few times he's barely escaped...It's true! A few times he's barely escaped harm from traps he couldn't detect. This goes to the discussion above, about how he's not invulnerable.<br /><br />My players have been pretty good about teamwork, too - Scouts looking ahead, then Vryce moves in to the scouted area to absorb any damage from traps they missed. Then they follow with other heavy fighters or non-front rankers depending on what they find.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-41151683024990430902013-03-25T11:35:38.695-04:002013-03-25T11:35:38.695-04:00Amusingly his tunnel vision and lousy Per rolls in...Amusingly his tunnel vision and lousy Per rolls in it saved him from the medusa. ;)<br /><br />The spell suggestions are good, but I've banned three of those spells. Telecast was a game-breaker in my last campaign (it dominated play once it got introduced), Throw Spell I found encourages munchkinny abuse, and Spell Arrow undermines actual spellcasters. So I nixed all three. Especially because my players love Wild Talent (Spells Only) so they can cast anything they need, so I can't just say "NPCs have this and you can't learn it" - if it's out there, they can.<br /><br />The area-affect terrain-modifying spells are a great choice for guys like this. It makes their life all that much harder.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-70489142165780358572013-03-25T11:28:13.187-04:002013-03-25T11:28:13.187-04:00I'll keep them up!I'll keep them up!Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-52883611097131197892013-03-25T11:28:02.176-04:002013-03-25T11:28:02.176-04:00Good suggestions. One thing about the sandbox dung...Good suggestions. One thing about the sandbox dungeon approach is that I can set situations all I want, but I can't control if the party enters them or not. The ambush on the way out last session was one where the NPCs could and did, and even then the players fought well and got lucky. Lots of times the players see a bad situation and back off - like the druagr, the 100-foot dash in the face of fire-throwing elementals, a previous occasion with the wights (and they came back ready for them) and some lizardmen (who they've decided to leave alone for now). I stick in lots of bad situations, but they generally leave them until they can shift the odds in their favor.<br /><br />Sniff, sniff. I'm so proud of them. :)Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-65318198358120771032013-03-25T05:27:02.634-04:002013-03-25T05:27:02.634-04:00Weak points in Vryce's build?
Probably the IQ...Weak points in Vryce's build?<br /><br />Probably the IQ and Will - maybe Per as well?<br /><br />Putting him in a situation where skills based on those attributes are useful to avoiding heavy damage - traps, for instance - could result him in danger.333https://www.blogger.com/profile/04303058354806079658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-65540734766307062512013-03-25T02:48:55.553-04:002013-03-25T02:48:55.553-04:00It looks like Will is his weakest point relative t...It looks like Will is his weakest point relative to other party members. Throw a medusa at him. ;-) A typical wizard will have to be, at 3 hexes, dangerously close for a 50/50 chance to nail Vryce with Tickle, Control Person, Mass Daze, etc. but Telecast, Throw Spell, or Spell Arrow can help that. A possibly more significant weakness is mobility. Ice Slick or Grease could be quite effective. <br /><br />Mostly, as long as he's getting a good workout and the other players are having fun then it's all good. William Knowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07075848234082280333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-31109485522340525742013-03-24T23:52:46.456-04:002013-03-24T23:52:46.456-04:00As someone about to play GURPS for the first time,...As someone about to play GURPS for the first time, I'm <i>extremely</i> interested in this type of post. Thanks for this one, and I hope you'll do more!Chris C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08655640273250716377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-38378835217081086812013-03-24T23:36:30.905-04:002013-03-24T23:36:30.905-04:00I found this situation back when I used to run D&a...I found this situation back when I used to run D&D 4E as well. One sure-fire way to throw an additional wrench into things is to invert the first rule of adventurers - "don't split the party." Figure out how to get them into two different spaces and the challenges change due to lack of standard resources.Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-5310121829094310582013-03-24T22:36:07.431-04:002013-03-24T22:36:07.431-04:00Hmmmm. Well, maybe one way to challenge characters...Hmmmm. Well, maybe one way to challenge characters like this is to provide them with more situations in which terrain is a potential problem. For example, a tight cave with lots of quick twists and turns (to minimize the ability of archers/scouts to use their ability) where the party has to go single file. Encourage the tank to go first to meet with whatever thing might be right around any given bend. Then, as the passage begins to widen, have a wizard or a magical trap shape stone to grapple feet/legs or squeeze him on the sides so that he can't move very well at all (so negatives to attack and defense rolls). Then throw lots of mooks or tough guy monsters at him while he's seriously impaired and while his companions can't assist. Or stage the encounter on a rickety wooden floor with lots of weak points onto which something could shove him (and thus through the floor into the waiting gelatinous cube.....). Sentient opponents would certainly have to be more clever, often using (even making) terrain or setting to best effect. I suppose one issue though is how to to challenge such a tough character (providing a nice "Oh, crap!" moment) without automatically killing him/her. Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09010591570142656742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-67661289994044573902013-03-24T21:28:31.638-04:002013-03-24T21:28:31.638-04:00Well, it's not so much about giving the player...Well, it's not so much about giving the players stuff they can't beat without great cost and special effort. They've found a fair amount of those already (two in the last two sessions). It's more of a question of "How is this guy not dead?"<br /><br />I promise there is weirder and tougher down deep in Felltower, though.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-55513145192659084572013-03-24T21:08:26.911-04:002013-03-24T21:08:26.911-04:00I like to use Elder Things straight from Lovecraft...I like to use Elder Things straight from Lovecraft. These monsters really can't be defeated physically so instead the PCs must find a way to shunt them back into the dimensions where they belong. Maybe they must break a sacred crystal or find some spell to be able to defeat these monsters. b-doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11618256665898788769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-15154697439368419902013-03-24T20:43:27.440-04:002013-03-24T20:43:27.440-04:00It's something I tend to screw up in my own GM...It's something I tend to screw up in my own GMing experience, but how are you using terrain to limit him, if at all? Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-35047698073030289562013-03-24T20:42:20.706-04:002013-03-24T20:42:20.706-04:00Doug's hit one point that I tend to find mysel...Doug's hit one point that I tend to find myself following with characters like this. Once you've reduced the risks significantly, you're free to start doing things that are suboptimal in mechanical benefits, but rife with style. Use your sword to bash away an opponent's weapon and then deliver a swift kick as a follow-up, for example. Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-2211427793329957652013-03-24T20:34:07.385-04:002013-03-24T20:34:07.385-04:00Just to pile on, one of the fun bits of characters...Just to pile on, one of the fun bits of characters with this much skill can be finding new and interesting ways to fight, rather than just find the best "I Win!" button for all occasions. Mixing up the kind of maneuvers you take, or if you're a multifaceted fighter (say you have Broadsword and Judo both at high levels) you can see what different parts of the GURPS rules you can use to win. Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-22536386380367915222013-03-24T20:20:30.048-04:002013-03-24T20:20:30.048-04:00I just started to play very combat team-support fo...I just started to play very combat team-support focused Warrior. Its kind of Spartan-like fighter with spear, Shortsword and medium shield. High Pain Treshold, Combat Reflexes, Fit, Weapon Master (sword&shield) etc. etc. ... tough to be brought down Tank-type. Im trying to taunt and goad or othervise draw attention of enemies and if not, at least use Shield-Wall Training to cover "weaker" members of our party. He's got not such huge dmg output as Vryce with Two Handed sword, but otherwise he's designed to fit pretty much similar role in the party. I m very looking forward how long (or how far) I'll get with this guy before I get killed (or bored).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17917524462851100844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-8049714463229420632013-03-24T18:15:46.535-04:002013-03-24T18:15:46.535-04:00I just want to say I do welcome suggestions on stu...I just want to say I do welcome suggestions on stuff to threaten him, like the one above!Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-42833973199092701622013-03-24T16:08:36.301-04:002013-03-24T16:08:36.301-04:00That's pretty much it. There is a lot of fun t...That's pretty much it. There is a lot of fun to them:<br /><br />- you get to be awesome. You're not invulnerable but you're tough, so you can charge a dozen mooks without a second's hesitation and beat them down. You can step up to the killer monster and say, okay, <i>I'm</i> the guy who needs to face this sucker.<br /><br />- you can expand out into being a team player. I know Vryce's player really enjoys parrying for other people, drawing fire, forcing opponents to concentrate on him, and so on. It's pretty fun when your toughness is something you can use to help others and get things done.<br /><br />- you can still be challenged, but the bar is set higher than if you're a missed defense roll away from needing a new PC. <br /><br />Vryce does need to make tactical decisions and tradeoffs. Vryce's offensive options are pretty good, and in order to stay hard to kill he's got to make very tough tactical decisions every single turn. He's done his best to minimize the cost of a bad roll, bad situation, and bad decision, but he still has to make the roll, find his way out of the bad situation, and make the tough decision.<br /><br />And frankly, I run a guy just like Vryce in Colin Ritter's game. I've demolished everything pretty easily so far, and I like that. It means we can blow through easy opponents pretty fast, dig out of bad situations quickly, and get on to the stuff I find <i>more</i> fun than combat - puzzles, tricks, weird obstacles, cool treasure. The more I can turn myself into a win button, the better, I feel, because I get to turn more combats into "we kill them and get on with it" - and the "on with it" is to the stuff I'd really like to do, much of the time.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-35357827276898743822013-03-24T15:58:47.918-04:002013-03-24T15:58:47.918-04:00They exist, but 300+ point guys don't grow on ...They exist, but 300+ point guys don't grow on trees, so I can't bust them out all the time.<br /><br />He did run into a well-armed Weapon Master last session with heavy armor and backed by a squad of well-armed high-skill opponents. And he held them off for a bit before they beat Vryce down - but then his allies found a way to push the "win" button anyway. It was close, but again, it's not like I can do that to them every session.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-55629561331636992242013-03-24T15:56:40.378-04:002013-03-24T15:56:40.378-04:00He's got a pretty good Will, actually - Will 1...He's got a pretty good Will, actually - Will 12 - and they've been careful to either keep at range from spellcasters <i>or</i> bum rush them hard and kill them.<br /><br />That kind of Command would be pretty funny, but since it's resisted, won't last (he'll get back up) and he's not alone, it's not a fight winner. It's just annoying him into spending more points on Will. ;)Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-70979797929680061602013-03-24T13:06:11.391-04:002013-03-24T13:06:11.391-04:00Vryce is hard to kill, but hardly invulnerable - h...Vryce is hard to kill, but hardly invulnerable - he took 80+ injury in the fight with 3 cultists and lost (see Session 22: Clash of the Titans).<br /><br />It can be a lot of fun to play a nigh-invulnerable warrior, laying down the smack on less warriors, but you can still be swarmed, overrun, tripped, grappled, grappled and teleported, mind-controlled, magically stunned, blasted by any of the dozen GURPS effects that ignore armor... there are invulnerable characters in GURPS, but you can't build them on 300 points.Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-42000127260064909292013-03-24T12:12:23.352-04:002013-03-24T12:12:23.352-04:00There is just one thing I m wandering about .. whe...There is just one thing I m wandering about .. where is the fun to play such a character? being invulnerable gets very boring quite shortly in my experience. When I dont feel like my character could be hurt, when I dont have to tacticize a little and balance my fighting style to survive and protect my companions, as well as get the enemies down, when there is nothing to challenge me, I usualy "re-roll" character just because it's not fun to play any more.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17917524462851100844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-39663322340036499222013-03-24T12:11:10.089-04:002013-03-24T12:11:10.089-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17917524462851100844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-34266785760161553502013-03-24T11:44:51.928-04:002013-03-24T11:44:51.928-04:00What about evil knights?What about evil knights?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-67177042473135788912013-03-24T11:14:50.573-04:002013-03-24T11:14:50.573-04:00The Holy Trinity of Lightning Bolt, Death Touch, a...The Holy Trinity of Lightning Bolt, Death Touch, and Burning Touch at least gives spell-casters ways to deal with him, but of the three, Lightning Bolt is the only semi-safe one and the least effective.<br /><br />A Command to "lie down" in a melee would at least slow him down a bit.<br /><br />Knights in DF quickly go to crazy-town and there's no reliable solution to taking them down with murderizing the rest of the party. Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.com