tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post5530616925015006355..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: Tricky ThrowingPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-37445746436219229192016-02-18T11:19:44.038-05:002016-02-18T11:19:44.038-05:00I know some people play it that way, but it seems ...I know some people play it that way, but it seems pretty clear the intention is defenses by the margin of the shield's DB hit it and can damage it. Otherwise, Shield is just "stick my shield flush into the strike" or "take the attack on my shield" instead of actually involving any deflection. That seems very wrong - Parries aren't "take the hit on my sword" or "take the hit on my arm," so why would blocks be any different?<br /><br />Shields are a wee bit too sturdy in 4th edition GURPS (compared to MtM-3rd, especially), but they'd be in pieces constantly if all they did was act as ablative HP.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-62231174901317143592016-02-17T16:00:53.257-05:002016-02-17T16:00:53.257-05:00Aha, I thought that was only when the shield DB he...Aha, I thought that was only when the shield DB helped a dodge or parry. I thought you could poke through the shield on any block. Interesting... Ill have to petition my GM, see if he will change it in his game. More likely to help me and my shield than hurt my ranged attacks :)Chandleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491987790136469636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-24185235463697822022016-02-17T12:27:06.770-05:002016-02-17T12:27:06.770-05:00Weapon Master (Spear) - personally, I wouldn't...Weapon Master (Spear) - personally, I wouldn't apply it to Spear Thrower, but require you upgrade it a bit to the 25 point level. Seems fair since the throwing lever is so significantly different. Plus, in games where I use WM, I don't brook a lot of whining about 5 points extra. :)<br /><br />The problem isn't even the DR, though - it's that it's not terribly common to have blocks hit the shield squarely. 5d+2 is scary, but it's scarier if it hits. Better to shoot at the shield-armed guy's shiedless friend, it's the Block portion not the DB of the shield that matters most of the time, and then 5d+2 is worth about as much as 1d-5. :)Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-37208596149710341942016-02-17T09:23:04.954-05:002016-02-17T09:23:04.954-05:00Yeah, with Basic Set shields, you'd need a bar...Yeah, with Basic Set shields, you'd need a barbarian pumped AP spear thrown from a woomera (or javelin from an atlatl) or a cranked crossbow, probably AP bolts as well. The Barb spear thrower gets 3d-1 to 3d+1 imp (2), which is a pretty good bet for getting through the shield at lest a little bit. Fine, dwarven whetstone, etc all help. That could even get you a shot at a second orc (HP 14, DR 4 mail = 18/2 for AP is 9)<br /><br />A Knight cranked crossbow (ST 42 with a x3 crank) is 4d+5 pi (2), so is a decent bet too.<br /><br />Neither are as nice as I thought with LT Shields of course. But both are missile weapons (no parry), and so mitigating a block and predicting a dodge might make em okay. <br /><br />Which makes me wonder if Weapon Master (Spear) would apply to a spear _thrower_, or if you need a 25 or 30 point upgrade to cover that off. Weapon Master (Crossbow) or a version that covers Crossbow actually looks pretty nice for a Dwarf Knight though, as they could get to ST 15 + Lift ST 2 =17x3 (crank) =51 ST pretty easy... and 5d+2 thrust with crossbow, bolt, and Weapon Master is almost a real weapon. Open with a Slurbow in a sling (thr+2 imp but 1x5 ROF, 5d+16 imp with fine, sharpened bolts or 5d+14 pi (2) with armor piercers), and then Fast Draw (long arm) as many other crossbows/slurbows on slings as your GM will let you get away with... and you almost make crossbows useful :)<br /><br />Chandleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491987790136469636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-20202816391722435672016-02-16T15:57:48.621-05:002016-02-16T15:57:48.621-05:00Ah, okay, that makes sense. LT changes a lot. By t...Ah, okay, that makes sense. LT changes a lot. By the Basic Rules, a thrown axe might break a shield but it can't overpenetrate - that takes impaling, piercing, or tight-beam burning.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-65761458920489581282016-02-16T15:37:10.538-05:002016-02-16T15:37:10.538-05:00Ah, a conflation of the DR 4 Low-tech gives most s...Ah, a conflation of the DR 4 Low-tech gives most shields and treating them like a wall or door in the overpenetration rules. But yes, that box does explicitly give shields "full" cover DR. <br /><br />Low-tech in general reduced the threshold for getting through a shield. Basic set shields are probably too tough for anything but cranked crossbows or swing based damage to manage.Chandleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491987790136469636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-64682832351867305692016-02-16T15:29:18.385-05:002016-02-16T15:29:18.385-05:00I haven't really had a situation where anyone ...I haven't really had a situation where anyone is doing so much damage versus a relatively low-effective penetration DR target that overpenetration would matter. It could potentially happen, but thrust-based damage isn't that high. A ST 20 thrown spear does 2d+2 impaling, and even against a DR 0 HP 10 target that's only 4 points of overpenetration. With DR 2 front and back, it's 0. So it's tough to manage.<br /><br />With a shield as cover, yeah, if you make your Block by the DB of the shield you could potentially get a shot right through. I'm not sure where you're getting +4 DR, though. A medium wooden shield is DR 7, HP 40, which means you need to do 18 damage to get 1 point of overpenetration, p. B484. Even a light shield has DR 10 for these purposes. Unless I'm badly misreading that Damage to Shields box.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-362349368814990002016-02-16T13:00:50.125-05:002016-02-16T13:00:50.125-05:00What are your thoughts on overpenetration? Both fo...What are your thoughts on overpenetration? Both for defeating shield blocks and for trying to sneak in more damage from a high ST throw?<br /><br />I keep looking at overpenetration rules as a possible save for barbarians using spears and for crossbows in general. Still wouldnt bother to track damage to a shield, but it isnt hard for a thr+3 thrown spear (backed by ST 19+) or a high effective ST crossbow to make a successful block basically turn into +4 DR. <br /><br />Also really good for slings. An "aboriginal" barbarian with a Spear focus and a Woomera could be a lot of fun. Or an alternate scout build if whoever is writing the DFD: Scouts books releases scouts from the chains of only using a bow. And lining a few guys up to punch through them with a crossbow bolt is a pretty classic move, fictionally speaking. Though the sling bullet or woomera launched spear is more likely to work.<br /><br />But I think overpenetration, despite being in the basic set, is optional for DF? Still, being able to turn a block into just bonus DR might bring Spears into competition with Axes as a melee/thrown option.Chandleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491987790136469636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-5440276932448334692016-02-12T00:15:21.828-05:002016-02-12T00:15:21.828-05:00Ha, I got a call out, wooooo!
I love the idea of t...Ha, I got a call out, wooooo!<br />I love the idea of throwing weapons I just think that they really aren't that good in GURPS. So don't worry, this ONE post probably doesn't tempt me that much.qpophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688150333185235575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-33841089989708220512016-02-11T21:26:32.249-05:002016-02-11T21:26:32.249-05:00It's good against foes who depend on Dodge.It's good against foes who depend on Dodge.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-43852628245679267112016-02-11T17:28:05.162-05:002016-02-11T17:28:05.162-05:00I think Hjalmarr may consider prediction shots wit...I think Hjalmarr may consider prediction shots with his throwing axe against shieldless foes. Vichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03268174879688628707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-28177642028569004602016-02-11T16:56:58.471-05:002016-02-11T16:56:58.471-05:00Sounds more like a Trademark Move, possibly with a...Sounds more like a Trademark Move, possibly with a custom technique - prepared foes will get a bonus to defend. Like, say, Achilles's attack in the movie Troy. Nails the unprepared but the quality foes see it coming and it doesn't work on them.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-14300891406021788202016-02-11T16:28:54.826-05:002016-02-11T16:28:54.826-05:00But I could also see it for tricks like Captain Am...But I could also see it for tricks like Captain America and the Eternally Bouncing Shield.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-87612564695829302462016-02-11T16:28:28.671-05:002016-02-11T16:28:28.671-05:00It might be one of those things that only works on...It might be one of those things that only works once. Appropriate for putting stuff past mooks nearly always, but the big bad might have done his homework.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-58184639141307488532016-02-11T16:00:21.705-05:002016-02-11T16:00:21.705-05:00You could, if you don't mind throwing masters ...You could, if you don't mind throwing masters nailing people past shields and swords. It's -4 default for a flat -1 to all defenses.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-45753299588276912802016-02-11T15:01:03.993-05:002016-02-11T15:01:03.993-05:00I wonder if there's room for a Curveball Techn...I wonder if there's room for a Curveball Technique that allows straight-up Deceptive Attacks with throw weapons. You might have to pick from a list - a chakram (frisbee!) or discus or boomerang or baseball can probably do this, but maybe knives and shuriken can't. But "Bend it like Hackham" has a nice ring to it.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-56034651336532169592016-02-11T14:51:54.147-05:002016-02-11T14:51:54.147-05:00The first two - prediction shots and ranged feints...The first two - prediction shots and ranged feints - you can do. The power-up, it's buy it or don't do it, much like Running Hit or Cleaving Strike or Coup de Jarnac, you can't default them.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-28734331139621791642016-02-11T14:28:52.371-05:002016-02-11T14:28:52.371-05:00Hmm. In the future I might test this one. I like t...Hmm. In the future I might test this one. I like the idea, but I'm not sure how many rocks Mo is gonna throw in a Berserk rage. He already killed one harpy with a rock.Thomas Pluckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008022962076648740noreply@blogger.com