tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post2459471052769032695..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: Weapon Master: Monster consequencesPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-73906198806098813882021-07-01T00:02:45.654-04:002021-07-01T00:02:45.654-04:00The Krabbari was brutal, very brutalThe Krabbari was brutal, very brutalKalzazzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17177712062675414026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-43607824497365484322021-06-30T17:32:13.942-04:002021-06-30T17:32:13.942-04:00We had to work really hard to make the Krabbari a ...We had to work really hard to make the Krabbari a threat vs a typical party (Hall of Judgment). I think we succeeded, but we absolutely had to "cheat." The thing was immune to certain damage, regenerated the rest, and had a fun mind control ability and a fear thing that targeted the Will of vulnerable delvers. Sending the low-Will barbarian Beserk against his friends? Priceless.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-71231868759242686662021-06-29T17:08:32.176-04:002021-06-29T17:08:32.176-04:00That's helpful stuff.
The monsters assume pow...That's helpful stuff.<br /><br />The monsters assume powerful delvers, but I don't think enough of them factor in having lots of WMs in the same group. It's hard to account for how much it matters, especially with magic and other WMs nearby to act as multipliers on the net effect. And the ones that can hang with the WMs put the non-WMs out of the picture of true utility.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-25944602064882372672021-06-29T17:06:30.766-04:002021-06-29T17:06:30.766-04:00Not all templates had it, originally, but there is...Not all templates had it, originally, but there is a reason that successive books have all made it more and more accessible. DF1/DF2 you could get it as a knight, swashbuckler, scout, martial artist. Then thieves got it. And barbarians. And assassins and ninja. And everyone except holy warriors. It crept in for a reason. In my experience guys without WM end up second-rate fighters no matter what. They just can't spend 20 points so efficiently that they net sufficient benefits to make up for its lack.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-84576970025674331942021-06-29T00:31:44.052-04:002021-06-29T00:31:44.052-04:00You make a pretty good case. Seems to me you could...You make a pretty good case. Seems to me you could substitute Extra Attack and Striking ST (one attack only) to allow a substitute for Weapon Master for people who want a little more oomph without just high skill & ST. Effect is additive rather than multiplicative. <br /><br />As a side note, I think the limitation for single weapon only on Extra Attack should be -60%, not -20%. So Extra Attack (multistrike, single weapon) would be 15 & +3 Striking ST would be [6] with a net cost pretty close to Weaponmaster for one weapon. Crouchbackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02633154359317901331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-71915537074206224772021-06-28T20:14:29.483-04:002021-06-28T20:14:29.483-04:00In general I don't think non WM sluggers belon...In general I don't think non WM sluggers belong in the dungeon. Except at low level, when you are such an overall bundle of inadequacy that you don't belong in the Dungeon anyway but here you are despite that<br /><br />I don't expect a 250pt character to always have WM, I think there are wholly valid alternates to WM, I am not sure I agree with the post above "WM seems to me to get more underpriced the higher the PCs' point budget gets as it's such a value multiplier on ST and skill investments" but it definitely is something where you want ST and skill to go with, so as your ST and skill goes up you want it more and more<br /><br />Kalzazzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17177712062675414026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-75061751809343675952021-06-28T19:51:16.361-04:002021-06-28T19:51:16.361-04:00I admit I vaguely assumed that stock DF monsters w...I admit I vaguely assumed that stock DF monsters were intended for WM PCs to exist, given it seems that all Swash, most Knights, some Thieves, and others through subclasses / lenses etc will snag it<br /><br />For my monsters I often toward several of these features<br /><br />1. DR such that anything short of a strong weapon master with a penetrating weapon will just bounce ('hit like a truck, hit weakness, have a penetrating weapon - pick two of three'). Bebelith had like 30 natural DR and 10 DR aura.<br />2. Enough damage that if the monster ever actually hits non zero chance of -5xHP in a single blow. Bebelith overrun smacked a guy for 210 or so <br />3. Lots of attacks. Skill enough to have decent levels of deceptive on said attacks. Pit Fiend had skill 36 and Claw, Claw, Bite, Horns, Wing, Wing, Tail, Quickened Fireball attack pattern <br />4. Lots of skill yielding high active defenses so they need to iterate it down or get crits to land blows. A pit fiend had parry 22 due to skill 36 and combat reflexes, iterate at -2 (it's a high skill unarmed fighter of course had TBaM), and that's on 2 claws<br />5. Enough HP and HT to just keep trucking despite PCs laying into it like a speed bag, including HT needed to keep trucking through brain hits. 250 HP Bebelith, or Hezrou that had 30 HT.<br />6. D&D style 'save for half' no you don't get to parry this moves, fright checks, other stuff that isn't hitting active defenses. Like I drop a pentagram on the map, each line of the pentagram that touches you make a dodge save for half, 5d fire and 5d corruption per line large area. <br />7. Attacks that don't do heavy damage often bypass certain DR, like 10d6 lightning bolts that ignore metal.<br /><br />Admittedly this doesn't actually result in monsters actually winning fights but they may do some damage as they lose<br /><br />My DFRPG party is somewhat removed from starting level as I start new characters at somewhat lower than lowest active member . . . . I have no idea how I'd design monsters to challenge both starting scrubs and non starting scrubs in the same party Kalzazzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17177712062675414026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-52736499963947123442021-06-28T13:02:23.727-04:002021-06-28T13:02:23.727-04:00I think your analysis is spot on. WM seems to me t...I think your analysis is spot on. WM seems to me to get more underpriced the higher the PCs' point budget gets as it's such a value multiplier on ST and skill investments.<br /><br />I'd imagine monsters with heavy weapons that your typical PC can't parry in the first place would be one way to mitigate the value of reduced penalties for multiple parries.<br /><br />I've also come to appreciate the way how before the 4th edition you could move into C with a step and attack unarmed or with a knife, and a Reach 1+ weapon couldn't parry.<br /><br />Oh yeah, and monsters with two good active defenses are less vulnerable to rapid strike spamming relative to a single high-skill attack with plenty of Deceptive Attack thrown in.Joel Sammallahtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03107984318947080798noreply@blogger.com