tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post2618354571808397818..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: DF Felltower: How much profit do you need?Peter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-49200652522618172692018-01-23T18:39:23.855-05:002018-01-23T18:39:23.855-05:00Im using $1000 at 250 points, $2000 at 300, $4000 ...Im using $1000 at 250 points, $2000 at 300, $4000 at 350 and so on.<br /><br />Its 1 xp if you hit that threshold. I don't require items to be sold just the rate is calculated at sale price.Unachimbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04873952842828774048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-85739845078369188302018-01-22T21:40:25.217-05:002018-01-22T21:40:25.217-05:00Yes, that's the one I mean.Yes, that's the one I mean.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-25168245373351389832018-01-22T04:48:35.491-05:002018-01-22T04:48:35.491-05:00Are you talking about the challenge system for DF ...Are you talking about the challenge system for DF in pyramid 77? Or sth else?John Mavroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169084046099005424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-46123195939001296742018-01-21T15:16:46.536-05:002018-01-21T15:16:46.536-05:00It's very hard to quantify it, but it's si...It's very hard to quantify it, but it's significant. For example, take a 250-point knight, and build it however you want. Then give the knight 40 points and spend them all on one combat skill for a +10, so you end up with a 28 to 30 skill. Suddenly every attack is Deceptive Attack -5 - that slams fodder to effectively no defenses, worthy foes to fodder-level defenses, and boss monster to worthy level. Suddenly Parry is in the 17-20 range so even a 2nd or 3rd parry is easy - more so if you've taken Weapon Master.<br /><br />That's just one focused investment of skill. If, instead, it's 250 points of skill, Extra Attack, maxing ST at 20, Weapon Master (to leverage that ST into +2 per die damage), Enhanced Parry, Luck or Extraordinary Luck - you can see how it's a great power boost. You're still only one character, and still vulnerable to catastrophic failures from poor choices or bad die rolls, but you can make your main attack nearly unstoppable, your defenses effective impenetrable in normal circumstances, and shore up weak points so you are less vulnerable to alternate means of attack.<br /><br />It's hard to quantify that, although Christopher Rice has tried. It's just clearly true that you're much more than twice as effective.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-33095159263614570182018-01-21T11:56:28.205-05:002018-01-21T11:56:28.205-05:00Great stuff, I hope you keep playing felltower and...Great stuff, I hope you keep playing felltower and providing us fun and excellent resource for DF. <br />I wonder how many times stronger you would peg the 500 point delver than the 250 point one. Obviously such a question would be impossible to answer in normal gurps, but in DF you do have some consistent parameters. Also you personally have had experience with a almost 500 delver adventuring with 250 ones, so that's why I am aksing. <br />John Mavroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169084046099005424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-17028329364072479182018-01-19T20:12:00.676-05:002018-01-19T20:12:00.676-05:00The thing is:
- you need a *lot* of treasure just...The thing is:<br /><br />- you need a *lot* of treasure just to keep a DF character going, if you're in a reasonably difficult campaign. Upkeep, upgrades, repairs, potions, power item charges, ammunition, training costs, etc. eat up money far faster than it seems up front. So a lot of money will be coming in if you hand it out like I do, but equally money will stream out of the hands of delvers at least as quickly.<br /><br />- Points aren't linear point increases. A 500 point delver isn't twice as effective as a 250-point delver, similarly equipped - it's more like a multiple of at least several times. So requiring 2x as much money is really requiring proportionally much less loot for the power the character brings to the table.<br /><br />- if loot thresholds are low, and you're primarily awarding XP based on loot, then it's idea for high-point guys to bottom feed - smack some orcs and goblins and dinomen and sell their gear and take their pocket change at minimal risk. It's a bad idea to take on dragons and demons and orc hordes, because it's much more risk but doesn't give you more XP. If you hand out XP for combat, this changes, but if you do that you can probably set a flat-rate "must make a profit" like in DF2.<br /><br />So even though my system may seem harsh, it really does work as intended - it pushes high-point characters to find high-end targets, lets starting guys do whatever they want for a while, and progressively pushes delves along as they go from starting to high point.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-12992762004347127602018-01-19T11:48:52.936-05:002018-01-19T11:48:52.936-05:00First of all thanks for taking the time to answer....First of all thanks for taking the time to answer. I think maybe you are going for a more old school dnd than videogami feel. In the sense in old school dnd your progress petered out after a while.<br />Ok that makes perfect sense. I propably would also use a table for my players for speed purposes. <br />Yeah essentially I ment at least 2$ per character point the player's character has, in profit after all expenses. It really depends on how much treasure is awarded. I kinda assumed the DF 8 costs of 250$ week in town, 100 $ consumables, 50$ power items and 500$ profit. So each person must find 250$+100$+50$+500$=900$ or even more if you assume they can sell them for full price. So the total treasure you should find to get the xp would go up to 3-4$ per character point point. Still it would end up a steady road in getting all the pavlovian stuff. <br /><br />John Mavroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169084046099005424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-1890306646962752792018-01-18T14:06:43.530-05:002018-01-18T14:06:43.530-05:00I think you're right - it is very forgiving fo...I think you're right - it is very forgiving for low point PCs, and very unforgiving for high point ones. That's really something I see as a feature. Low-point guys can pretty much do anything and keep progressing. High-point guys have to take real risks. This encourages folks to have low point guys and not just their high-point guys. It also means it's not a steady road toward eventually having all advantages, all skills, all power ups, etc. on your template. You slow down and need to take risks *and* be choosy about what you spend them on.<br /><br />I'm leery of formula instead of a table. It's too hair-splitty (500 x pts/250 basically means $2/point) or depends on the group too much (if you mean 500 x total points of all PCs/250.) I'd rather have ranges so we neither need to do math per PC nor have players worried they could have earned more XP by not spending points!Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-52679633619282228552018-01-18T05:59:12.252-05:002018-01-18T05:59:12.252-05:00Seems to is very forgiving for low point pc's ...Seems to is very forgiving for low point pc's and very unforgiving for high point pc's. Why not start from a basic value say 500$ profit and then multiply it with the players total points/250 to find the required loot needed?John Mavroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169084046099005424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-16162209604815358152017-05-15T10:35:11.696-04:002017-05-15T10:35:11.696-04:00Yes. It even says so on the top of the chart (100,...Yes. It even says so on the top of the chart (100, then 50).Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-51068833543033262322017-05-15T10:24:31.119-04:002017-05-15T10:24:31.119-04:00Is the 100 point jump from 250-349 in method 3 del...Is the 100 point jump from 250-349 in method 3 deliberate?martinlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14046036634336503492noreply@blogger.com