tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post3479237143422583747..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: Upgrading the GURPS Evaluate ManueverPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-74112804582927098812013-07-04T10:17:27.189-04:002013-07-04T10:17:27.189-04:00What about if Evaluate allowed you to do full dama...What about if Evaluate allowed you to do full damage?<br />1 sec, roll (1-2)=2, (3-4)=4, (5-6)=6<br />2 sec, roll (1-3)=3, (4-6)=6<br />3 sec, 6Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12048691627634519724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-86440455541267670532013-07-04T10:17:04.681-04:002013-07-04T10:17:04.681-04:00What about if Evaluate allowed you to do full dama...What about if Evaluate allowed you to do full damage?<br />1 sec, roll (1-2)=2, (3-4)=4, (5-6)=6<br />2 sec, roll (1-3)=3, (4-6)=6<br />3 sec, 6Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12048691627634519724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-20998077538584835042013-06-18T17:54:22.444-04:002013-06-18T17:54:22.444-04:00It's not that it's too powerful, it's ...It's not that it's too powerful, it's basically saying the more you observe a target, the harder you hit it - irrespective of your strength. The fact that it doesn't scale means it's even odder - at the low end of damage it's even more useful, and at the high end less so.<br /><br />Also, if you implemented it, I'd want it to apply to anything my character hit when he had 3 seconds to do it - +3 damage versus doors, +3 damage when I sneak attack someone and have time to wait, etc.<br /><br />I just think it has less justification in other game rules and oddly ties observation to improved ability to do damage (if I don't look and just swing hard, I do less damage than if I look carefully first).<br /><br />I'm not saying it's impossible to come up with a good explanation, just that the explanation leads me to a lot more "yeah but . . ." than "oh cool!" and I'd personally not want to use it that way.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-79159990209920674752013-06-18T06:44:56.063-04:002013-06-18T06:44:56.063-04:00The bonus damage is meant to represent choosing th...The bonus damage is meant to represent choosing the most ideal time to strike, enabling you to use your foes movement against them to increase the force of the blow, or to just target less well guarded areas/more sensitive areas that you've assessed a clever way of hitting by Evaluating them (hence being lost even if the attack doesn't land, your foe is aware of where you were attacking or is simply moving differently now).<br /><br />As for stacking other bonuses, I only suggest the -3 to DA and Feint attempts (and I'm still not sure about even that), which - like the damage bonus - are lost whenever you attack (even if the attack is successfully defended) and must be regained with further Evaluating.<br /><br />Also the objective of the preserving Evaluate is to allow sequences like:<br />Eval/Eval/Eval/Attack (defended)/Eval/Attack (hit)/Eval/Eval/Eval/Attack... etc<br />Where each attack has a +3 to hit, although only the first and last would have a +3 to damage.<br /><br />The reason I've been toying with damage bonuses is because of the perceived 'waste' of potential damage that could be dealt when you're of high skill and there is no reason not to just attack each round. The damage can be reduced to a +1/+1/+2 stepping if it seems too high for just observing your foe.<br /><br />As there are a number of ways to get bonuses to damage, from different grips and attack options, and the damage doesn't add per die, I don't see it as being too powerful. It should however be a good incentive when you need to eke out every last point of damage or need to consolidate your damage dealing into as few attacks as possible due to the risks of attacking (like when your opponent enjoys dismembering their attacks with Wait manoeuvres to target the attacking limb).PseudoFentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14054154200055912286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-67707365835707079162013-06-17T19:01:13.502-04:002013-06-17T19:01:13.502-04:00I like the idea of keeping the bonus if you follow...I like the idea of keeping the bonus if you follow the next turn with another Evaluate, essentially allow for Eval/Eval/Eval/Attack/Eval/Attack/Eval/etc. for a cautious fighter. I'd be less inclined to give Evaluate more bonuses, though, or you might end up with it being superior in a one-on-one situation than most other options - imagine if you get a +3 to hit, negate -3 in DA and Feint, and get +2 to defend against that guy and use Defensive Attack for a further +1 to defend. You'd never want to screw it up with an AOD, say. "Keep your bonus if you re-evaluate on the turn following using your Evaluate bonus" is pretty generous on its own, with the current benefits.<br /><br />I wouldn't personally have a damage plus, because I don't see how carefully observing your foe for openings makes you hit harder. It just seems like an unjustified addition.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-79906716679774354262013-06-17T18:56:30.607-04:002013-06-17T18:56:30.607-04:00Fixed!Fixed!Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-13784515023509688042013-06-17T18:00:46.075-04:002013-06-17T18:00:46.075-04:00Proofreading: Evaluate gives +1, +2, +3, so half t...Proofreading: Evaluate gives +1, +2, +3, so half those values rounded up should be +1, +1, +2, no? Rather than +1, +2, +2Bob Husshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15487418088988415144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-53293609390414106752013-06-17T15:20:35.629-04:002013-06-17T15:20:35.629-04:00I've toyed with the idea of providing a stacki...I've toyed with the idea of providing a stacking bonus to damage as well as to hit. The damage bonus is only +1 per turn, and only applies to the first attack made (if you're able to launch multiple attacks). In addition, should your attack be defended (but doesn't fail) after Evaluating, you may preserve your previous to hit bonus if you Evaluate again during your next turn (although your damage bonus is always lost and must be regained).<br /><br />This gives an incentive for players who deem Evaluate a wasted chance of applying some damage, and encourages its use against more heavily armoured foes (both because of the damage bonus, and because the to-hit bonus enables them to better target chinks).<br /><br />Having the bonus to-hit preserve even after your foe has successfully defended (should you go back to Evaluating for a turn) also means you've not wasted three entire turns of Evaluate for nothing. It also means you should (in theory) get lulls and flurries of action with a varying tempo as attacks are defended or land home and so require different lengths of 'wait' before you strike again.<br /><br />In theory using the MA defence rules in addition to these rules would work, although it may cause some fights to last much longer when two skilled fighters keep using Evaluate on each other. Although that said, this may actually be considered a good thing, GURPS fights can be over in a matter of seconds - and rarely resemble that of those seen in films.PseudoFentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14054154200055912286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-33109930694991099142013-06-17T14:21:39.235-04:002013-06-17T14:21:39.235-04:00So it never got used?
Part of the reason I didn&#...So it never got used?<br /><br />Part of the reason I didn't suggest a bigger plus is that I think it's not the + to hit that's the issue. More would be nice, but it's probably not going to sway someone to use it. But with a mix of bonuses it might be useful for someone slightly outmatched or cautious to use in order to really balance out the skill mismatch. Or maximize it.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-75123594537383537282013-06-17T10:52:32.917-04:002013-06-17T10:52:32.917-04:00I've tried increasing the bonus for Evaluate t...I've tried increasing the bonus for Evaluate to +2/turn to a max of +6 (not stacking with Telegraphic attack). I thought it made for a better trade-off for sneak attacks: if you have time, you can Evaluate for +6 and get a really good hit in, but if you're in a hurry, you may just make a Telegraph attack and move on.<br /><br />In play, no one ever seemed to remember the bonus for Evaluate so it didn't matter.Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.com