tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post5413296440507919594..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: Review: Dungeon GrapplingPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-87433492270933407502017-01-10T11:58:26.296-05:002017-01-10T11:58:26.296-05:00Peter catches a lot of the important points here. ...Peter catches a lot of the important points here. I also think that the basic question covers more ground than it seems:<br /><br />* Why employ two mechanics when you can use one, and which one to use? (Mechanical)<br />* Why should grappling be treated as a red-headed stepchild and dismissed in terms of interest, and potential cool story possibilities? (Narrative)<br /><br />Leaving out that I wanted to make a cross-edition ruleset that was also internally consistent with how attacks are handled from the first edition of the rules to the fifth, here are 3 mechanical reasons for doing it the way I did it:<br /><br />1) Everyone learns 1d20+bonus vs AC as the basic hit mechanic. Deviating from this is where the additional complexity starts<br />2) 1d20 - 1d20 (opposed rolls) is about half-again (square root of two) more variable than 1d20-10 (the basis of an attack roll). I already find 1d20 almost unbearably swingy as-is, so adding more variability on hitting does not add more fun.<br />3) Opposed STR checks still beg the question of how you resolve effects, and on what basis.<br /><br />I could probably expand all of the design decisions I made into a blog post, but then, I already talked about a lot of the design stuff in Round Table #146: http://www.thetomeshow.com/e/round-table-146-douglas-cole-and-dungeon-grappling/<br /><br />So "opposed STR rolls" has strikes against it even beyond what Peter pointed out is a basic premise in Dungeon Grappling: one mechanic that's common to striking, that can be used across nearly any edition, and is fully supported *in the systems I included in the book*, which has to be in there.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-79569291715678097372017-01-10T08:49:41.198-05:002017-01-10T08:49:41.198-05:00I don't get them either, which is why I like t...I don't get them either, which is why I like this book.<br /><br /> The thing about opposed STR rolls is:<br />- S&W doesn't do that.<br />- You still need to determine what happens as a result of that STR roll.<br />- You'll need a STR stat for everything and know it offhand.<br />- You'll have potential trap for the attacker if bad things happen to the loser of the opposed roll, while attack rolls don't do that.<br /><br />The thing about using the "to hit" rules like for strikes, and effect roll that mimics damage, and condition effects that mimic conditions and results of failed saving throws for grappling is that all of that exists in the system. The complexity, in a way, is being removed and replaced with something that matches how these systems do damage-causing strikes and do spells and conditions on characters.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-36962472830313938892017-01-09T17:00:49.220-05:002017-01-09T17:00:49.220-05:00I dont get all the complex grappling rules - why n...I dont get all the complex grappling rules - why not just opposed str checks?Psikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02744089998921613315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-91667743001736605592017-01-09T11:14:32.398-05:002017-01-09T11:14:32.398-05:00(It's hyperlinked too, by the way. You can dou...(It's hyperlinked too, by the way. You can double-click most page entries in the ToC and Index and jump right to the page in question. Finding broken and "why don't we have . . . ?" hyperlinks is what's part of the pre-print and pre-final timing over the next two weeks as I get a print proof done)Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-71844278305096278352017-01-09T10:42:06.941-05:002017-01-09T10:42:06.941-05:00As you say, you're not biased, but thanks for ...As you say, you're not biased, but thanks for the excellent review. One nitpick: you're Grappled if you go from 1/5 to 1/2 of Control Maximum (though your statement that you're grappled if you're at 1/4 to 1/2 is accurate).<br /><br />In play and playtest, I noted that the Control Maxima were a bit higher than the original Dragon Heresy version, and that it could take a bit too long to get out of "Grabbed." So I tweaked that threshold downwards a tetch.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.com