tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post7779329525487334706..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: Puzzles - Players & CharactersPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-25919214881675063562014-03-25T14:18:22.449-04:002014-03-25T14:18:22.449-04:00I think you're probably right - the "inve...I think you're probably right - the "inventory" is just a skill, and structuring puzzles in a way that leverages intangible "inventory" is a good way to look at it. The nice thing is, it might drive players to "bonus hunt" in a way that is really very dependent on player cleverness without making it so the smart guy who runs the low-IQ impulsive barbarian is solving the complex and time-consuming puzzle. It rewards the players for the work, but still makes the actual abilities of their paper man matter. That's how a lot of game subsystems work.<br /><br />I'd say it's worth keeping in mind that all encounters - puzzles, traps, obstacles, doors, monsters, etc. - should to some degree require the social aspects you mentioned. Some won't require much, some should require a lot, and some will always come down to purely player decisions. It's not just puzzles, really - opening a door, fighting some orcs, or figuring out how to get the statue's arms into the right position to open the magic portal are all just somewhere on that continuum between "player skill" and "character abilities."Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-8923658476429348932014-03-25T14:11:40.101-04:002014-03-25T14:11:40.101-04:00I'm glad. That analogy is an important one, be...I'm glad. That analogy is an important one, because the usual refrain is that combat is "different" because you can't act it out at the table. But it's not any different than any other roll-based resolution that requires a player element to make the right choices. You could just as easily make combat a puzzle where the decisions of the players decides the results (a more complex rock-paper-scissors matrix, say), or make a puzzle that is purely dice based. It's just how you choose to mix the resolution methods.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-50287473024322187162014-03-25T10:25:40.634-04:002014-03-25T10:25:40.634-04:00I'm very much in the "character skill&quo...I'm very much in the "character skill" camp, as I suspect you know, but appreciate something you said - that combat still uses player skill, just not with swordplay, instead relying on player skill for tactical considerations. Something I'd not really considered before but that nuances the situation significantly.<br /><br />I will likely look at systems to include player overall "tactics" when it comes to puzzles, but demand character skill alongside.Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-60633957567322017432014-03-25T10:04:17.626-04:002014-03-25T10:04:17.626-04:00I like that puzzles test the player skill; I'm...I like that puzzles test the player skill; I'm looking forward to including them in the family game so they become a teaching opportunity for the kiddos.<br /><br />I see what you mean about "character skill" in opposition to player skill, but I'm wondering if we can treat character skill just as a different type of inventory problem.<br /><br />An inventory puzzle requires bringing the appropriate game element into contact with the puzzle to get past it... the puzzle solving bit is seeing the problem, making the right connection when they find an appropriate item, or creatively looking for a substitute. Things like finding the key, or using the junk in the dungeon to build a ladder or bridge, or finding a special quest item for the hag before she answers your question. By analogy, the same ideas for items can extend to intangible character skills. Examples:<br /><br /><i>The portal of undeath needs to be "turned" like an undead monster before it opens up; once the party identifies the problem, the party cleric might need to be an appropriate level before they can get past the door, or find a higher level NPC to help, or use a spell or magic item for that one-time boost.<br /><br />Characters need a certain amount of strength to lift something in the dungeon like a trap door... this could require strength potions, a block and tackle, bribing the ogre, or maybe they're just lucky enough to have two guys with 18/00.<br /><br />Casting the right kind of spell is a way get past an obstacle... like using a Gust of Wind spell to blow all the poison gas out of the hallway.</i><br /><br />I'm thinking the key to making it a good design, whether the solution leverages intangible character skills or tangible physical items, is to structure the puzzle so it requires table-planning, discussion, and strategy for the players to arrive at a solution - emphasizing the social elements of the table top setting.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.com