tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post8504584536176152895..comments2024-03-27T22:37:01.796-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: DF Enchantment ChangesPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-66866574736335071972015-03-10T11:39:16.469-04:002015-03-10T11:39:16.469-04:00You want a situation where scouts have Cornucopia ...You want a situation where scouts have Cornucopia quiver producing Fine arrows?<br /><br />I'd rather have "I can take four quivers cheaper than getting a +1 to every single hit I make" than the opposite.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-44340679697274208632015-03-10T11:21:43.222-04:002015-03-10T11:21:43.222-04:00That does seem to be best solution. I don't mi...That does seem to be best solution. I don't mind inexpensive consumables like potions, poisons, or spell stones. I object to the situation where every scout has 4 cornucopia quivers (impaling, piercing, cutting, crushing) of basic arrows, but can't possibly afford to get a single quiver that produces fine arrows. I also object to the situation where no one buys Fine armor because Lighten +1 is so much cheaper.Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-87950084096668020532015-03-10T11:04:38.922-04:002015-03-10T11:04:38.922-04:00So basically you create a small class of $1/point ...So basically you create a small class of $1/point items and leave the rest as flat cost per point? That seems like a good way to go. That way +1 Puissance arrows aren't $500, but +1 Fortify armor isn't $100, either.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-28846432651222361792015-03-10T00:20:53.370-04:002015-03-10T00:20:53.370-04:00I believe what we settled on for my GURPS Jade Reg...I believe what we settled on for my GURPS Jade Regent game was that enchanted items had to have at least a cumulative +1 CF to be enchanted. Didn't apply to items enchanted through deeds or Named Items.<br /><br />That said, I also like the effect Mark's "everything costs $20/point" has as well.Nathan J.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10766314693163049846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-2768692813374595292015-03-09T14:28:46.839-04:002015-03-09T14:28:46.839-04:00The way I've handled this is that Quick and Di...The way I've handled this is that Quick and Dirty and Slow and Sure are "either/or" instead of a spell using both. Simple wizardly tools and ammo enchantments are Q&D; other stuff is S&S. There are some quest-based ways around this but the result is "pay $20/point unless it's a Powerstone."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-91842558612012264002015-03-08T22:29:45.687-04:002015-03-08T22:29:45.687-04:00No worries.No worries.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-18061974350160351752015-03-08T19:13:53.766-04:002015-03-08T19:13:53.766-04:00Oops. Sorry about the redundancy.Oops. Sorry about the redundancy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-46029101644145216282015-03-08T17:51:27.315-04:002015-03-08T17:51:27.315-04:00The effect of market forces is tangentially addres...The effect of market forces is tangentially addressed in GURPS Magic, but it's really at the core of the problems you're addressing. Demand for life-and-death, arms race-type enchantments like Fortify, or versatile ones like Lighten, is always going to encourage expansion of production of such items to the point where the Orcs all really do have +1 armor, or its going to run up against limits in the availability of qualified mages or other production bottlenecks, and drive up the cost of such enchantments considerably. Such demand would also likely "crowd out" production of other items, driving their cost up as well.<br /><br />Meanwhile, something like a Forgetfulness enchantment (on a "cursed" helm or some such) is either going to be a niche item that will be hard to come by except as a special order (with a considerable mark-up). Meanwhile, their sale value as treasure would be heavily depressed by low demand -- no one is likely to care that the Forgetfulness helm you found would cost $18,000 to produce if they don't feel a need for one, unless the market for such things is <i>so</i> liquid that they'd consider buying it as a speculative investment (magic-item "flipping"?).<br /><br />So the decision to increase the market cost of enchanted items really can be done arbitrarily, rationalized by backstage economic factors (guild-driven or otherwise), though that would potentially incentivize PC mages to learn some enchantment spells to gain "at-cost" access to key items.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-64782031011135846672015-03-08T17:51:07.835-04:002015-03-08T17:51:07.835-04:00I'm in the same boat. I like $20/point both b...I'm in the same boat. I like $20/point both because it puts Fortify +1 and Lighten 25% in the same price range as other enchantments, and because it doesn't make enchanting armor one piece at a time cheaper than enchanting the whole suit.<br /><br />But I didn't impose this house rule at the start of my current game, so I'm not going to change the rules in the middle. My players would go nuts if they all suddenly got slower due to extra armor encumbrance from losing the cheap Lighten.driptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800295180326776163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-52169450713046727902015-03-08T17:49:22.287-04:002015-03-08T17:49:22.287-04:00The effect of market forces is tangentially addres...The effect of market forces is tangentially addressed in GURPS Magic, but it's really at the core of the problems you're addressing. Demand for life-and-death, arms race-type enchantments like Fortify, or versatile ones like Lighten, is always going to encourage expansion of production of such items to the point where the Orcs all really do have +1 armor, or its going to run up against limits in the availability of qualified mages or other production bottlenecks, and drive up the cost of such enchantments considerably. Such demand would also likely "crowd out" production of other items, driving their cost up as well.<br /><br />Meanwhile, something like a Forgetfulness enchantment (on a "cursed" helm or some such) is either going to be a niche item that will be hard to come by except as a special order (with a considerable mark-up). Meanwhile, their sale value as treasure would be heavily depressed by low demand -- no one is likely to care that the Forgetfulness helm you found would cost $18,000 to produce if they don't feel a need for one, unless the market for such things is <i>so</i> liquid that they'd consider buying it as a speculative investment (magic-item "flipping"?).<br /><br />So the decision to increase the market cost of enchanted items really can be done arbitrarily, rationalized by backstage economic factors (guild-driven or otherwise), though that would potentially incentivize PC mages to learn some enchantment spells to gain "at-cost" access to key items.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-64437281517836115642015-03-08T15:57:47.870-04:002015-03-08T15:57:47.870-04:00The division between what is a weapon/armor enchan...The division between what is a weapon/armor enchantment versus enchanting a weapon or armor is a good distinction. <br /><br />Using CGA, and hitting a $10 shoulder quiver to end up at $500 is a bit extreme.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377972768076926086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-28623340407551928282015-03-08T15:11:20.990-04:002015-03-08T15:11:20.990-04:00So basically, same rule as above - a cost-positive...So basically, same rule as above - a cost-positive prefix.<br /><br />I'd go for $20/point too, but it would mess up a number of magic item prices already in play, and like I said above, I'm fine with cheaper access to spell stones and other consumable magic items.<br /><br />Setting a "consumable" price vs. "permanent" price is the same as now, just shifting what falls under each category, which would be a pain.<br /><br />Setting entirely new costs seems like an exercise in choosing my own randomness over looking up someone else's established randomness. I always err on the side of less work, so . . . Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-58842749740973449872015-03-08T15:07:59.037-04:002015-03-08T15:07:59.037-04:00I'd agree, except that:
- Scouts are generall...I'd agree, except that:<br /><br />- Scouts are generally less lethal than most other direct-damage combatants.<br />- They depend on ammunition.<br /><br />Letting them fork over a nominal fee to avoid the headache of arrow tracking whenever they use their default arrow type is a total no-brainer for me.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-8977288725915667822015-03-08T14:28:39.115-04:002015-03-08T14:28:39.115-04:00It was at least Ornate (CF +1). Any of Fine, Elven...It was at least Ornate (CF +1). Any of Fine, Elven, Thieves' or whatever would also qualify.<br /><br />Letting people use Ornate at CF+1 meant that you could get cheap magic items, but not as cheap as the standard rules, and you paid for a mostly useless enhancement.<br /><br />Personally, these days I'm tired of the cost difference between Q&D and S&S, and price them both at 20 pts/level. Or more preferably, use a difference pricing scheme than random energy points.Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-29623454257773757442015-03-08T14:26:11.570-04:002015-03-08T14:26:11.570-04:00I would happily require at least $500 in Ornate be...I would happily require at least $500 in Ornate before letting someone have a Cornucopia quiver. Cornucopia quivers are too cheap.Mark Langsdorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301984145275679568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-30016221913218192152015-03-08T13:55:09.145-04:002015-03-08T13:55:09.145-04:00They aren't armor or weapon enchantments, so n...They aren't armor or weapon enchantments, so no.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-65288859852127563312015-03-08T12:54:57.719-04:002015-03-08T12:54:57.719-04:00One of the most common magic items I see in starti...One of the most common magic items I see in starting characters is a Cornucopia Quiver (a Scout's go to item). Next is a Mage's Staff spell (for Wizards etc).<br /><br />So would you require a ornate or fine on these?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02377972768076926086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-30669934336215479172015-03-08T11:21:40.717-04:002015-03-08T11:21:40.717-04:00I won't require Ornate, because that means, sa...I won't require Ornate, because that means, say, Fine Elven Thieves' Mail isn't eligible for enchantment because it's not pretty enough. But the principle is the same - the stuff has to be of an improved non-magic quality before it can be magic.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-30225165228028597532015-03-08T11:18:42.149-04:002015-03-08T11:18:42.149-04:00Nate, Em, and Mark all require at least ornate (+1...Nate, Em, and Mark all require at least ornate (+1 CF) on a piece of armor to carry the enchantment - I think this is for armor only. High TL also qualifies. But yeah, basically the same game: no super-enchantments on cheap stuff.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.com