tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post8981987222593277725..comments2024-03-28T15:32:19.036-04:00Comments on Dungeon Fantastic: GURPS Weapons & Tactics: FlailsPeter Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-10748096117351808732013-04-25T14:26:30.844-04:002013-04-25T14:26:30.844-04:00Imagining a WM (flail) ambidexterous knight with n...Imagining a WM (flail) ambidexterous knight with nice heavy armor and a pair of morning stars.... that looks, formidable. Do not get close to that guy. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08285566251159438706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-11591577947127957312013-04-10T02:37:24.866-04:002013-04-10T02:37:24.866-04:00The bladed flail is "realistic" and usef...The bladed flail is "realistic" and useful when the Graceful Weapon enchantment is affordable. William Knowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07075848234082280333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-21556590222483803372013-04-09T12:51:25.553-04:002013-04-09T12:51:25.553-04:00@Peter: yeah, if I were to do something, it would ...@Peter: yeah, if I were to do something, it would be based on base damage before multiplier for attack type, and likely by hit location. Mostly things such as considering DX penalties (like a shock penalty) if a hit strikes home - esp on an arm or leg - but is absorbed by armor, as well as special thoughts on what happens when you whollop someone in the head, especially.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-25009692509774180212013-04-09T12:29:02.945-04:002013-04-09T12:29:02.945-04:00I think that GURPS is the first game I ever played...I think that GURPS is the first game I ever played where there was a compelling reason to choose a flail over anything else, mechanically. Maybe there were some bonuses in AD&D, but if so they were buried in the charts and tables that never got used.Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-3584596100701597892013-04-09T11:51:59.309-04:002013-04-09T11:51:59.309-04:00@Christian - you could always do that when you onl...@Christian - you could always do that when you only defend by the margin of the DB of the shield. Inflict either some kind of damage anyway (DR of the shield + DR on the arm will negate most of it) or some other effect. A properly done block will get around that though.<br /><br />@Joseph, Doug - you'd want to make this general, though, because impact is impact. Otherwise a hammer is a great hand number despite armor but an axe isn't, because it's got an edge. Either way, I'm not exactly crying out for special rules on blunt trauma.<br /><br />@Jason - probably right, there.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-69509540148880260972013-04-09T11:45:23.859-04:002013-04-09T11:45:23.859-04:00That kind of specificity really works well with th...That kind of specificity really works well with the sort of damage tables available in Rolemaster. I've been leaning in that direction for a really, truly realistic combat system, for a while now, but it's so poorly looked-upon by the masses that I'm sure it would be an experiment only for my own self.Jason Packerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02240705069654358715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-53151374034161530072013-04-09T11:14:30.455-04:002013-04-09T11:14:30.455-04:00Something like a dead/numb arm (very temporary cri...Something like a dead/numb arm (very temporary crippling?) would be an interesting effect, but I have no idea whether that's realistic or not :)Joseph Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072211027549450948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-53909672616874129772013-04-09T10:54:39.409-04:002013-04-09T10:54:39.409-04:00I've got some less-than-half-baked thoughts ab...I've got some less-than-half-baked thoughts about ways to improve this, but they need to cook/steep more. Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-58360982370295308232013-04-09T10:46:35.678-04:002013-04-09T10:46:35.678-04:00In my last session, the Stone Knight was flinging ...In my last session, the Stone Knight was flinging a large flail. I applied blunt trauma to the arm behind the shield after a successful block. This doesn't completely makes sense as a block can be a deflection and thus nothing gets to absorb all that energy in the end, but I meant to scare the PCs, and it worked.bongotastichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06403616300118528548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-14979934929758474202013-04-09T10:04:26.209-04:002013-04-09T10:04:26.209-04:00Flails would be even more impressive if GURPS had ...Flails would be even more impressive if GURPS had a more refined mechanism for blunt trauma. There's a LOT of momentum in these things, and heads especially don't like getting whipped around via impact.Douglas Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04292678529266123501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-76606039191462605102013-04-09T09:50:09.540-04:002013-04-09T09:50:09.540-04:00With respect to hit location, swing+3 crushing doe...With respect to hit location, swing+3 crushing doesn't get any multipliers but it is pretty high basic damage. <br /><br />To me that suggests targeting extremities with intent to cripple (legs/arms for smaller HP foes, hands feet for bigger HP). Yes DF foes tend to have high HP but DF characters tend to have a lot of damage output. <br /><br />Of course, with high damage bashing straight through helmet DR might be pretty viable too, but IME head armor tends to be much higher than the lowest extremity DR and the hit location penalty is easier too.martinlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14046036634336503492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-16855711900588429222013-04-09T09:13:50.971-04:002013-04-09T09:13:50.971-04:00Thanks, Peter! This is great stuff!Thanks, Peter! This is great stuff!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-40898677280378208112013-04-09T08:57:36.725-04:002013-04-09T08:57:36.725-04:00The Dodge is a good point. I wanted to keep this w...The Dodge is a good point. I wanted to keep this weapon-centric rather than character-centric, though - what do you need, not what would be useful. What you want to try to do, now how to build a guy to do that. But I've done that kind of approach, too, way back in the day for Pyramid, and it's a great way to approach the subject!Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-69934927497298193682013-04-09T08:27:17.660-04:002013-04-09T08:27:17.660-04:00I've often meant to explore the possibilities ...I've often meant to explore the possibilities of the flail. I haven't been in that many melee-heavy GURPS campaigns.<br /><br />I think it's worth mentioning how heavily weapon choice influences not only fighting style but character build - <i>this</i> weapon demands high skill, <i>that</i> one can cope with lower skill but needs lots of strength, <i>the other</i> would really benefit from a user with a bit of extra Dodge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-39123159498784622742013-04-09T08:19:01.141-04:002013-04-09T08:19:01.141-04:00You're right, I forgot to address Defensive At...You're right, I forgot to address Defensive Attack, and I should rectify that.<br /><br />As for the penalties, everyone knows they are there or learn it almost immediately upon encountering a flail user ("Watch out for the [whatever] with the flail, you're at -4 parry, -2 block, and you can't parry at all if you had a fencing weapon.") No one has ever bitched about it, although they have moaned about it. :)Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7817710432110712270.post-49460832935581239932013-04-09T08:08:45.024-04:002013-04-09T08:08:45.024-04:00Flails never came up in my last campaign, but I...Flails never came up in my last campaign, but I'll certainly look to rectify that in my next one. How do your PCs cope when they are on the receiving end of the Parry/Block penalty?<br /><br />Also, doesn't Defensive Attack specifically allow to offset the no-Parry restriction for U weapons?Joseph Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17072211027549450948noreply@blogger.com