DF has a number of little rules and rulings in the various books. We use many of them regularly - whether as-written or heavily modified for simplicity.
There are some things, though, that don't come up in play. In the same mind as the easily forgotten GURPS rules, here are the ones I can find, with page references in Dungeon Fantasy 2.
Dungeon Parkour (DF2, p. 7) comes up in part - jumping, climbing - but most of the rest is the rarely/never category: balancing, diving, leg up, squeezing, skidding, etc. Much of this is me - I don't put a lot of such obstacles in my games. More of it probably my players - they'll use Levitate, or they'll avoid the obstacle entirely because some of the PCs/NPCs can't reliably transit it. I do need to put more elements in my dungeons that require such methods to get around. Speed is Armor! (DF2, p. 12) falls into this same category, but mostly because folks go heavy-armor more than light armor with Acrobatics. Even our one Swashbuckler and one of our Martial Artists wore the heaviest armor possible, so there wasn't much in the way of points placed in Acrobatics.
Trickery (DF2, p. 10) is rarely used. Mostly people either negotiate or fight, but no one really specializes in trickery. Some of the players are quite clever and can spin a believable tale, but built PCs who can't back that up ("I'm sure with Bad Temper and Easy to Read and Truthfulness I can default Fast-Talk and convince them we're their gods! Cast Gift of Tongues on me!") I suspected this is why "Good (Three-Headed) Doggie!" doesn't get used, either. We don't have that kind of druid.
"Onward to Victory!" (DF2, p. 11) has come up maybe once? But yeah, giving advice with Tactics is rare. Giving folks a bonus vs. Fright Checks or Mind Control with Leadership has never come up.
Last Ditch (DF2, p. 15) has never come up. None of it - Seeking Guidance, Praying, or conversion of altars. Even the former Rogue and NetHack players haven't tried this.
I'm pointing these out as a combination of just reflecting on my game, reminding my players what exists and is expected to be tried by PCs in the game, and for my own benefit.
Clearly, I need to have more places to balance or climb and scissoring blades to dive through, though. That's for sure.
"Clearly, I need to have more places to balance or climb and scissoring blades to dive through, though. That's for sure."
ReplyDeleteObviously you need a balance beam with scissoring blades and a rapidly slamming-shut portal at the top of a rope-ladder in a No-Mana Zone.
Actually just take the last Ninja Challenge and make that a level of the dungeon...
. . . with treasure at the end. Sounds like an encounter area.
DeleteAlso your second link ("easily forgotten GURPS rules") is brokened.
ReplyDeleteThat mostly matches my experience, except for Acrobatics. The first Swashbuckler coined the word "acro-dodge!" for his primary defensive maneuver and it's been adopted by a dozen or more subsequent swashbucklers, thieves, martial artists, and scouts. In my games, there are a lot of people who end up wearing Lightened Heavy Leather and Dodge + Retreat against their first foe and do a flip against their second. It even showed up in Mecha Against the Giants and Castle of Horrors.
ReplyDeleteOnward to Victory (Advice) might come up more, but generally by the time the group's Knight is at negative HP, things are so desperate that risking passing out to get in one more sword hit is a better option than telling the thief how to fight better. I might see more of it in the New Dawn military campaign, where some of the better tacticians are not 17 HP 14 HT Skill-20 combat monsters.
I think it depends on one person liking a tactic for it to spread.
DeleteI have to say I wasn't thinking of "Onward to Victory!" being for when you're out of the fight. I figured it made sense when you couldn't reach the fight but wanted to get involved. That's when it has come up the rare times it has come up, not as a last-ditch effort.
This reminds me of Hans Gruber and "shoot the glass." This *should* get used more in our game when Knights are in the back away from combatants (not *very* common, but it happens), although people (yours truly included) should probably bump up Tactics beyond the knight starting skill (11?) a little bit to avoid making things worse (reminds me of multiple survival rolls in the Cold Fens...ok, you now have -1 to your roll due to Bjorn's "help").
DeleteIt's the usual "11 in a non-combat skill? I'm an expert and never need to put points in it again" vs. "20 in a combat skill? I'm pathetic, I need to up that!" syndrome.
DeleteBut yeah, it's something I think is overlooked as a potential action. Probably because of the usual attempt to maximize the effects of each and every turn, and +1 to someone's rolls doesn't seem as attractive as "what if I roll a 3 on my attempted Move and Attack?"
It's interesting, because in the first fight of New Dawn, some of the melee fighters were horribly mis-positioned. Like 20+ yards away, at Move 4, from the fight. While others were a bit closer. The distant fighters had huge Tactics skills, and could have usefully called out advice, but didn't think to do so and instead trudged toward the battle.
DeleteMaybe I should remind people about Forward to Victory. Maybe I should remember it myself.
The DF game I run has a wizard but no thief, so Dungeon Parkour is pretty rare. "Let the wizard fly up and set the rope so we all get a bonus to climbing" is the usual tactic, unless there is serious time pressure.
ReplyDeleteBut DX rolls still come up when there isn't time for planning. Either because you didn't detect the trap and have to roll to not fall in, or because you're being actively attacked and need to run across the narrow thing to smack the orc in the face before it skewers you with an arrow.
The last wizard I played got some mileage out of Onward to Victory. He was the slowest PC, and we often ended up fighting in cramped areas where not everyone could reach the enemy, so sometimes buffing one of the front rank guys was the best he could do. And it's fun to order people around and have them actually appreciate it because of the +1.
I've been a little nastier with Dispel Magic traps, No Mana Zones, etc. this game precisely to make "wizard = thief, but better" less true. The result has been a fair amount of "we can't get there, let's move on" but player agency is player agency.
DeleteWe get a lot of DX rolls with traps, bad footing, etc. but not a lot of planned (or even desperation) dungeon parkour.
I do think OtV is useful if you get away from "the Knight can do more useful things." Knights aren't the only ones with Tactics or Leadership - and it's an easy no-cost way to buff up hapless NPCs, hapless PCs ("My cleric is fine in melee! Right?"), and the only PC that can fight some given foe. I think it's more accidentally overlooked than rightly skipped.
Dungeon Parkour, huh? I need to read up on that one. I've thought about giving Mo Acrobatics and the perk that lets you jump to standing after falling down, partly because I think it would be hilarious and terrifying, and the parkour for jumping off a dungeon wall to charge and avoid bad footing, jumping your way up a corner wall, would be just as amazing.
ReplyDeleteGetting my PC's to stop tripping over Each other would be great.
ReplyDelete