One of our players this Sunday has played the living hell out of GURPS with us, and runs DF on his own, and has played D&D 5, too, I think.
But he's never played any D&D earlier than 3.5. Here is what I wrote to help him adjust a bit to AD&D (aside from some rules-specific writeups):
"AD&D vs. D&D3.5:
- much simpler combat. It's tactical only in the sense of using figures to determine location in specific set-piece battles.
- characters and monsters deal less damage (mostly) but have less HP (definitely).
- monster combat ability is purely based on their HD (hit dice), which also determine HP. Bigger monsters always have better "to hit" rolls.
- AC descends, and uses a table instead of ascending and using a "roll plus" system to determine a hit.
- Initiative is simpler, and individual alertness only reduces surprise.
- casters can't swap spells easily, or up-cast spells with a higher spell slot.
- the only skills in the system are thief skills and "to hit" rolls in combat.
- no feats or special abilities aside from some very specific class abilities, most of which won't figure in this game.
Offhand I can't think of anything else critical to know. It's just more lethal and less forgiving, based on my reading of D&D 3.5."
Anyone have any other helpful bullet points for a 3.5 player going to the confused and glorious mess that is AD&D? I'm extremely fluent in AD&D but 3.5 was one I only read without every playing. I know most of what I know from The Order of the Stick!
D&D 3.5e init is cyclical, AD&D is rolled every turn.
ReplyDeleteHD top out at 9-10, with a flat bonus thereafter.
No unified XP table, in the unlikely event it matters. XP bonus for high attributes was still around for some weird reason (it should have been dropped with Greyhawk).
You can only go to about -4 or so hp instead of -10.
Each attribute has its own table for the bonuses, instead of the unified table of 3.5, and you don't get them as fast.
The saves are all on a table, and not affected much by attributes.
It isn't harder to save against spellcasters casting high-level spells with high attributes
That initiative one is important - especially since he's more used to GURPS, which doesn't even have initiative rolls! Thanks especially for that.
DeleteIf one is a fighter and your strength is 18, then roll percentile dice for exceptional strength (subject to some caps). Plus strength to-hit and damage bonuses have a steep curve from 18 to 18/00.
ReplyDeleteMax player attribute is 18 (monsters and deities can go to 25 (24?), and no bumps after level advancement- if you've got a 9 or 18, it'll typically be that until age effects come into play.
Is level restoration from level drain available in AD&D?
"Is level restoration from level drain available in AD&D?"
DeleteYes, using the Restoration spell.
AD&D also has secondary skills, which are used as background elements to help the DM rule on unusual actions (eg a character with farmer/gardener might have a better idea of how many population a given area of land can support, or how many farmers are needed to work it, which can help with pre-battle estimates or the like).
ReplyDeleteCharacter creation is less complicated in AD&D(compared the endless 3.5 race/class/feat options), so there is less start-up time commitment.
ReplyDeleteAD&D characters are limited in race/class combinations based after universal cultural assumptions. Dwarves cannot be magic-users, Halflings cannot be clerics, etc.
AD&D Races other than humans are usually limited to maximum class levels for the same cultural assumptions. Only Thieves, Bards, and Half-Orc Assassins have unlimited advancement. Exotic options, like Dark Elf PCs, are not a default game option.
Bard is the ONLY prestige class, but requires significant ability score and multi-class requirements. Obtaining Bard status is badass. Bards are badass. Bad. Ass.
Proficiencies (skills) came into AD&D with Unearthed Arcana and the Survivial Guides, if you count those as first edition. It was really AD&D1.5, a precursor to 2nd Edition AD&D.
ReplyDeleteWe're playing pre-UA and pre-Survival Guide rules as we are running the A-series tournament-style. Those will come later when we eventually get into UA-era adventures!
DeleteAnother note on Initiative: It was a d6 for each side in a combat (each round) and not individual rolls. Fighters with multiple attacks & hasted first, and DM determination of order. Then there are weapon speed factors which may be used to complicate this. (With multiple players and different weapons my group didn't use WSpd at first and gave up on it soon after trying it.)
ReplyDeleteWe're not using Weapon Speed. It's a bizarre rule, really. It helps in ties, but then if you have ties, and you have superior weapon speed, you may get 2 or even 3 attacks. If you don't tie, you just get one. What the hell? If you have a shortsword (WSF 3) you want to tie against a two-handed sword (WSF 10) so you can get 2 attacks before the two-handed sword guy. If he's got a Awl Pike (WSF 13) you get 2 before he goes and then get 1 simultaneous. If you win initiative, you get one either way. That's clearly a rule written but not seriously playtested.
Delete(All this per DMG p. 66)
Even if not using weapon speed to handle ties, I'd suggest using it to match against spell casting time on initiative ties to see if spells get off before attacks disrupt the casting. It's a little thing that only comes up on occasion, but it is one of the reasons to use a Power Word: $foo spell over one with a longer casting time.
DeleteThat's way too marginal of a situation for me.
DeleteGygax didn’t use weapon speed or length. He only added the rules to please some associates
Delete"- the only skills in the system are thief skills and "to hit" rolls in combat."
ReplyDeleteThis isn't exactly true. The key of AD&D (and BD&D) is that it has a lot of ad hoc systems glued on to cover what got consolidated into the d20 skill system in 3E and later games. Searching for secret doors, moving silently as a demi-human without armor, listening through doors, etc. They all had their own arbitrary "roll this or less on d-something" and the d-something often changed for no obvious reason between sub-systems.
I considered some of these attribute checks, effectively, but they could easily be considered skill systems as well.
DeleteOh, yeah. Your session reminded me of another significant difference between AD&D and 3/3.5E (actually all non-AD&D editions). In d20 games if a character reaches 0 or lower and is incapacitated, if that character is healed to 1 hit point or more it is instantly fully functional. In constrast, in AD&D if a character reaches 0 or lower and is incapacitated, if that character is healed by any amount it is back at 0 hit points, will not die, and requires days of bed rest before it can do anything. (I don't remember if it is 1 day per hit point below 0 or 1 week regardless of damage, but either way it means the character is completely out of the current adventure.)
ReplyDeleteOne more major difference between AD&D and 3/3.5E that your journal account reminded me of (I know you must love all this spamming, but you already set the journal to require posts to be individually approved so I can't reply to my previous posts as you haven't approved yet).
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, the difference. "Spellcasting while in melee range fails most of the time." In AD&D if you are in melee and casting you will be attacked by anyone who can reach you. ANY hit or saving throw (successful or not) causes the loss of a spell being cast. Very unforgiving. In 3/3.5E games you draw an attack of opportunity from everyone in melee range when you cast, so it is still a bad idea, but if you are hit you get to make a free saving throw in the form of a Concentration skill check. This check is usually extremely easy unless you were hit by a heavy-damage foe like a giant. It was regular practice to cast in melee when we played 3/3.5E because with all the skill bonuses casters pick up to Concentration the odds of failing were low enough to ignore one or two attacks per round (the only real worry is if the caster was surrounded and might be knocked out by shear damage, not for failing a Concentration check).
Actually, I believe that is partly inaccurate. Any failed saving throw spoils it, not a successful one. Per DMG p. 65:
Delete"5. Any successful attack, or a non-saved-against attack upon the spell caster interrupts the spell."
Unless what Gary meant early with "They are interrupted by a successful hit - be it a blow, missile, or appropriate spell (not saved against or saveable against)." was that a spell that could be saved against counts as a successful hit. But then rule #5 and the distinction between "not saved against" and "saveable against" is meaningless. Using our rules for initiative it's so hard to succeed that allowing successful saving throws against spells to also throw off your spell is just piling out without real meaning.