The excellent Delvers to Grow has a talent called Master at Arms.
It's a very, very good idea. I won't sum it up here, because you should buy the book if you want the details. Suffice it to say that it is a combat talent.
I'm tempted to use it for DF Felltower, but I do think it is potentialy a little broad for DF Felltower. You get just a bit too much for the price, perhaps.
Here are two alternatives I put in front of my players to consider:
#1:
Melee Weapon Mastery (10/level)
Prereq: 3+ Melee Weapon skills at 4 points or more each.
+1/level to all Melee Weapon skills, limit 4 levels
(Possibly open to all templates, probably open only to Barbarians, Knights, Holy Warriors, Martial Artists, Ninja)
#2:
Melee Mastery (10/level)
10/level for +1 to all Melee Weapon & unarmed combat skills
Prereq: 4+ Melee or Unarmed skills at 4 points each.
(Limited to Knight, Barbarian, Holy Warrior)
- Might we just use Master at Arms as written? Yeah, maybe. But Master at Arms gives a bit too much - anyone with Brawling, Wrestling, Shield or a ranged weapon, any one Fast-Draw, and one melee weapon is better off investing in MaA than upping those seperately pretty quickly. That bothers me a bit. Also, it bothers me that Martial Artists and Ninja, who most benefit from it and are most thematically "anything is lethal in my hands," are blocked from it.
- I'm open to a modified MaA with a more limited pool of benefits - maybe not on Fast-Draw, for example, which seems like a too-useful throw-in, or something like that.
- This opens up a larger talent - perhaps 15/level for all combat skills (great for Martial Artists and Ninja) and 5/level for all ranged combat skills (potentially useful for any fighter type, although likely to see little use.)
- Why not Swashbucklers? Because they're a one-note template. They should be specializing in swords, and taking A Sword's A Sword if they want to broaden out their sword coverage. They don't need to be buying a broad talent for non-sword weapons.
- The prereqs for #2, above, might just as easily be the same as those for MaA.
- I'm not sure what I'll go with, but I do like the idea of things that encourage broader skill development.
While I have seen plenty of characters who would want Master at Arms (plenty though not all, Polly the Archer wouldn't want it necessarily, though maybe she might) I'm honestly not sure I've ever seen a GURPS character who would want Melee Weapon Mastery and only a select few who might want Melee Mastery
ReplyDeleteI'm curious why you decided on the pre reqs you did rather than the pre reqs as published
The test, really, is do any of my players want either for their characters or not. I'm putting this out here, but if Aldwyn's player says, "This is Aldwyn's dream! Shut up and take my points!" to either of these then it's all I really need to hear.
DeleteI think the prereqs as published fit the advantage as published well enough, but I prefer a different approach, personally. It might not even be necessary, but it feels right.
What gear does Aldwyn use? A post about the characters weapon choices and fighting style would actually be pretty interesting
DeleteI kind of prefer these prereqs from a thematic sense, though I prefer the as published prereqs were I making a character as a player
Hopefully his player will post. Mostly I see him use double longswords or longsword and shield, but his dream is - as I understand it - is to master most or all of the "knightly" weapons.
DeleteI really like Melee Mastery. Yeah, Melee Weapon Mastery is perhaps easier to get, but Melee Mastery feels better both thematically and points-wise. I can see Bruce stopping to think about Melee Mastery at some point (although he seems focused on increasing ST and HP), because he has 20 points in Two-Handed Sword, 4 in Brawling, 4 in Wrestling, and 1 in Knife. 3 points in Knife gets him there and then 10 points per level is far more economical to improve all of those skills at that point (which would otherwise be 16 points to bump them all up one level). The challenge for Bruce is going to be, "What to do first?" Up Outdoorsman, which benefits him for those skills but also gives him major benefits so long as he has the Girdle of Savage Might (Outdoorsman Level +1 to Striking ST and Lifting ST)? Up combat skills? Up ST so he can keep going towards his goal of 25 ST / 50 HP? Decisions, decisions! But Melee Mastery also would benefit him greatly.
ReplyDeleteI suspect Aldwyn would be in favor of either as well and would really want that. I don't recall his stats offhand, but I believe he probably has 4 points in Brawling and Wrestling, and 32 points or more in Broadsword...not sure about other melee weapons, but he does have points in some of those also (knife? axe? both?). I'll see if I can get his player to post his stats and fighting styles. I know that he and Bruce's player were actually acting out Aldwyn's preferred attacks last night, because, of course, there are always some kind of swords within reach in this house.
I actually think these prerequisites are too high. The problem weapons talents address is that specialization in one combat skill, or maybe two, is really the only cost-effective approach. Melee Weapon Mastery costs 22 points for level 1 (including prereqs) and 52 points for level 4, the maximum. Those 52 points buy you +7 on your prereqs, and +4 on everything else. Or you could spend the same points and get +15 to a single skill -- more than twice as much.
ReplyDeleteThe real issue, IMO, isn't the cost, but the benefit. There really isn't any game-mechanical reason to use different weapons. It's easy to cover all the damage types with a single skill, and when you're a Weapon Master adding +2 per die to your damage rolls, the difference between swing+1 and swing+2 isn't enough to justify adding a whole other skill.
I think it's better when one considers that a fairly standard knight who has diversified a bit to help himself in close combat (16 points in broadsword, 8 points in shield, 4 points in Brawling, 4 points in wrestling, 4 points in knife) who has spent 36 points doing so now would need to spend 20 points to upgrade all of those skills by +1, but only 10 points with Melee Mastery. It's truly beneficial to keep upping Broadsword and perhaps Shield (or Buckler) as well, until we get into close combat, and then those become a hindrance.
DeleteI could dump the prereqs entirely, but that's not really in keeping with Power-Ups, and like Vic said, it's not a huge jump. MWM (option #2) really isn't looking at "one skill" versus "four skills at 4 and a talent" because none of the templates which can take it have only one melee/unarmed skill. They generally have 3 or 4. All I'm asking for is that you buy in to the breadth a bit before you expand out.
DeleteI could go with the original prereqs from DtG, but that's more total points and is easily solved with one high skill.
So while I can ditch it . . . does it really make that big of a difference? I think, looking at the templates, it doesn't.
Does it cover shield? By my reading it doesn't but I could be confused
DeleteIt is included.
DeleteAh! That makes it far more useful
Delete“THIS IS ALDWYN’S DREAM! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY POINTS!”
ReplyDeleteI am partial to either the original MaA rules (dropping the pluses to Fast-Draw because that’s just too much) or option #2. Aldwyn has, I believe, 40 points in Broadsword, 4 in brawling, 4 in shield, 2 or 4 in knife, 2 in wrestling, & 1 in axe/mace. I do want to add more to axe/mace and diversify a bit more.
Bruce’s player wanted to know, precisely how Aldwyn does his trademark move of 3 neck swings at Deceptive-4. The answer is both swords coming in at the same time (thanks two weapon fighting) coming from the right swinging left and then the right arm swinging back to hit the other side of the neck. For any of those who have seen the anime or read the manga Attack on Titan/Shingeki no Kyojin/進撃の巨人 it’s similar to how Levi and Mikasa attack, but with less spinning.
So yeah, Tl;dr Aldwyn definitely wants this.
There is a difference between them we should also note:
DeleteMaA gives a +1 only to skills you already have, but MM gives a +1 to all covered skills.
So MaA is broader, but demands more breadth of investment. MM is narrower, but rewards everything, including defaults.
Probably then I might lean more towards MM given that it would include defaults.
DeleteNoted. We'll still need to give it some thought, but I think that one might be a winner.
Delete