Sticking the categories in Part I and Part II, what gear helps you sneak? And are there any tactics you can use to augment them?
Sound - How can you move more quietly?
First, some gear.
Moccasins / Tabi / Padded Footwear - From Low-Tech. These light, thin shoes give a +1 to Stealth vs. hearing attempts. Muffled steps means quieter movement, but you trade off some DR - you get all of DR 1 for moccasins and tabi, compared to DR 2 for boots. DR 2 isn't much, but that one point margin can spell the difference between "I pull out the caltrop and keep walking" and "I yell in pain." But 1 point of Stealth can be the difference between getting detected or being too quiet to hear.
GURPS doesn't break boots up into soft or hard like AD&D did. Rather it has three steps - very soft shoes like moccasins and tabi, normal footwear like sandals, shoes, and boots, and noisy footwear - such as hobnailed boots (Low-Tech p. 98). So regular boots are normal Stealth.
Mukluks - a special case - if you need to sneak on snow, mukluks knock off 2 points of stealth penalties in snow. Generally not so useful in a dungeon, though - how often is there snow, and how often do you need to sneak across it? But it's worth knowing they are out there, if you've got a mage with Create Object and an odd patch of snow to sneak across.
Thieves' Mail - From DF1, this armor's weight doesn't count against you for determining encumbrance-based Stealth penalties. That's a good way to get better DR but also to avoid making noise. Thieves' Mail is better than leather for sneaking, and as good as no armor at all. That's seriously good.
Next, some tactics.
Oil locks and doors. It's worth looking to see if the door is a creaky sort before you try to open it. Use oil (not the flaming kind) on the door to let it swing open and shut more easily. Avoid doors that won't open this way until there is no need for stealth.
Another tactic for dealing with doors is to use somewhat quieter ways to bypass them - magically pass through them, use acid on them (watch for smell, though, it's a rare metal-dissolving acid that has no odor), use rust monster slime, whatever. It might not be silent but it's a damn sight quieter than bashing or muscling through.
The Lockmaster spell can substitute for a skilled thief, but nothing in the description says it opens locks quietly. So in my game, I rule they open with the same sound you'd make with a key. It's as quiet as the lock would normally be. It's a one-second works-or-doesn't thing, and that's not slow. A thief can at least try to muffle his sounds a little more in my games, by taking more time to work and s-l-o-w-l-y moving the parts.
Tie down loose stuff. Seriously, you want a bonus to your stealth roll or want to avoid penalties? Don't wear loose clanky stuff.
Move slowly. Stealth is at -5 if you move faster than Move 1. So don't do that.
Obscure your noise with other noise. Time your movements to match louder sounds. If the dungeon has a regular set of noises, try to time your movements to those sounds. Step when the patrol stomps by, take advantage of that distant scream of some unknown victim to move further, and otherwise move only when potential threats have Hearing roll penalties.
Vision - How not to be seen?
This one is tougher. There isn't a lot of low-tech gear to help you see in the dark - you need magic or other supernatural aids for that. A couple things will help you not to be seen, though.
Colored Clothing - In Low-Tech, p. 126. Nothing says you can't substitute Lincoln Green for Dungeon Gray. Done right, this gives a +1 to Camouflage. As LT points out, black is a bad idea, but dark versions work well at night. So dark gray for the dungeon, if it's the stereotypical gray stone walls.
Camouflage Paint - Also in Low-Tech. You know you want to smear grey-and-black stripes on yourself like Arnold. Just do it, and get +1 to Camouflage skill rolls.
I'm not convinced a hunting jacket, with pattern-breaking tassles and attached foliage, is a good idea in a dungeon, so I'm skipping that. It could make you look like a member of the S1W, but that doesn't seem like it'll help in a dungeon.
Tactics are pretty simple.
Stay out of clear lines of sight. Pretty simple. Don't make obvious movements in front of people. Stick to the shadows.
Don't carry a light source and stay away from light sources. This works well for thieves and scouts, even if their group has one. Stay outside the range of their light, so you're in the dark and blend with it as the light attracts attention. Still, it's only making you sneak better, which might not be enough. Everyone seeing the in dark is better - as covered in Part II.
Smell
As the DMG noted, there are ways of throwing off smell if your goal is to stop pursuit. If not, though, masking your own human/elven/half-draconian-elemental-tiefling scent is a tricky business. You ideally want to smell like nothing, so you don't attract nasal attention from monsters you otherwise bypass through sneaking and hiding. If you mask your own smell with something stronger (perfume, oil of citronella, animal scents) you might attract attention. Worse, you might smell like prey.
There isn't any real gear to prevent people from smelling you.
Try to smell like the environment. With that in mind, all you really need is some (free) stuff that smells like the locals do. Rub it on, wear it, etc. Eat like the locals and you won't smell different from them. Disguise (Animals) is important, here, and Disguise probably covers this for non-animals, too.
Other stuff - Some assorted tactics worth discussing if your goal is to creep around without being heard, seen, smelled, or otherwise detected.
Distraction - Distractions are an odd issue here. If your goal is to truly sneak, and not been seen or detected at all, distractions are a bit counter-productive. A distraction might help if you get people paying so much attention to one thing they don't notice you. But effectively you're giving up on not alerting them, but instead alerting them to something that isn't you and hoping they'll assume it was nothing and forget it.
So distraction is a risk - it needs to be good enough to draw attention, but not enough to alert anyone. You can't depend on their reaction.
Disguise - Another iffy one - you replace "I sneak in" with "they don't know I'm not supposed to be there." Again, this is good if your goal is penetration but you don't need to get in without anyone knowing you are there. This one is better for fortress-type areas or pseudo-wildernesses (like in D1-3) than in places like a megadungeon where many monsters don't care who you are, just if you're edible or not. So save it for when you've acting like you belong and not for when you need to not seem like you are there at all.
So that is some gear, and some tactics, to help you get around in a dungeon more stealthily. It's not exhaustive - the gear might be, as far as GURPS books are concerned. The tactics certainly aren't. But they might help you keep the goal the goal - if you're trying to get around without being detected at all preferably, and as an intruder/foe/food secondarily, what makes that easier to do?
Overall, sneaking in a dungeon seems pretty hard. Magic helps immensely, some equipment helps, and you can use all your cleverness to help as well. But it's not going to be easy to get in and out to areas undetected. Or even just in. Good luck!
Special Secret Ninja-only Subsection!
Ninja Gear - Why do ninja get all the cool stuff? Because I wrote them and I wanted them to have cool stuff. So there! If you're a ninja, keep reading. If not, sorry, most of these don't work for you - they take some level of Ninja Talent to get the effects I mention. If you think that's unfair, well . . . hyah! Shuriken in your neck!
Dark/Pitch Dark ninja suits - if you want to avoid visual spotting, you need these (and Ninja Talent 1 and 2, respectively). You net out +2 to stealth vs. vision, +1 when moving (doubled for Pitch Dark). These also add to your Invisibility Art skill.
(True story - I briefly considered making these "kuro (黒)" and "makuro (真黒)" to keep with the Japanese-y names of the stuff in the book, but I went with utility over cuteness in that section at least, especially because they"d stick out badly from the rest of the names.)
Quiet/Supremely Quiet ninja suits - as Dark, but for noise. And expensive but good combination is having both - if you're worried about sight, you may as well be worried about sound, too.
If you can lay your hands on it, the Shokosu Gi is Dark and Supremely Quiet and has solid DR, too, which normally isn't a valid combination.
Wednesday, May 8, 2013
Tuesday, May 7, 2013
Sneaking in a Dungeon, Part II
Sneaking in adventuring gear, in a dungeon, is hard. Phil Folgio compared it to sneaking with pots strapped to your body, as +Chuck Yelton reminded me.
What if you still want to try it?
Magic will help.
It's been too many years since I played D&D, so all I know there is Invisibility and Silence 15' Radius. I don't know of any spells to help you see in the dark; D&D seemed to imply Infravision meant "see in the dark" in a way that GURPS doesn't. So the trick seemed to be have Continual Light or elves. I'd love to see someone else more familiar with D&D (current, recent, or old-school) post about it and I can link to it in this post.
At least in GURPS, there are a small but useful variety of spells you can use to help you sneak.
Note: I'm going to concentrate here on spells that counteract the detection methods I listed in Part I. I'm skipping spells that either let you "sneak" by some expanded definition of it - by teleporting in, say, or using Body of Shadow to explore, since these often have either serious downsides (can't carry stuff in Body of Shadow form) or serious risks and costs (Teleport, if you even have access to it). For the same reason I'm skipping disguise spells or other things that stop foes from successfully identifying you, but not from spotting you. Otherwise you can get into a too-broad and less useful definition that makes Ignite Fire a "sneaking" spell because you can light fires to distract guards and then sneak in. That's a bit beyond the scope of discussion.
Sound - Your first problem is being heard, since it carries much further than light does around twists and turns. GURPS has nothing quite matching AD&D's Silence 15' Radius, which is a utility spell masquerading as an attack spell.
Here are some ways around making noise, or at least increasing your Stealth score and thus your ability to pad along quietly at Move 1:
Grace - this gives a +1 or more to DX, which is a +1 to all Stealth rolls. It is generally cost-prohibitive (4/4 per level, 1 minute) however, but it's good in a pinch, and useful if you're planning to backstab right after you sneak.
Hush - A good spell, but you can't make sounds when you use it, either. All it gives is a +3 to Stealth or -5 to be heard. So it's a good start but it's not great because you can't speak if you suddenly need to. You can't make a sound. It's potentially useful to silence a guard, though, if you're sure you can beat his Will by enough.
By the way, it's probably simpler to make this spell give you Silence 3, with the limitation that you can't make sounds. Just smooths the rules a bit.
Mage Stealth - Now we're getting somewhere. As hush, but you can make sounds if you want to. This is the version you want, and it's not terribly pricey (3/2, 1 minute). Again, though, the issue is you can still be heard - not well (-5 to hearing, +3 to stealth) but it's possible. You can't pop this spell on and blithely run around the dungeon. Keep sneaking.
Silence and Wall of Silence are useful, too. Silence makes everything in the area quiet - good if you need to keep a group from speaking at all. Wall of Silence is more useful for sneaky camping - you can surround your camp with this spell, and no sounds escape. You can't hear them, either, so you might want to put some kind of visual tripwire or a guard outside of the wall. Neither spell will move around with you, so if you want to actively sneak as opposed to hide, you need Hush or Mage Stealth.
Vision - Vision, not lighting, is the first key. Lighting is bad, because light that lets you see can be seen from very far away. So don't waste time worrying about torches and light spells - it's all the same problem.
You really need to see in the dark to get around without giving away your position.
The Night Vision advantage is useful, but you still need some light to see, even with it maxed out (9 levels). So you can toss the Night Vision spell unless you're in a dungeon lit by its own light sources - torches in a fortified complex, say, or phosphorescent molds or unearthly glowing mushrooms. Night Vision will serve to negate the penalties that come with it, within their radius.
Infravision is helpful, too, but you suffer from only seeing heat patterns - differentiating color, a cold trap trigger from an equally cold normal wall, etc. is going to be a problem. It's not "I see the infrared spectrum and see in darkness as if it was daylight, too" - it's just the heat vision thing. So, equally, Infravision is helpful but not a cure-all.
You really want the Dark Vision spell, although it's somewhat costly (5/2, 1 minute). It's cost-prohibitive for most wizards to keep it on a whole party. Dark Vision will just let you see in darkness, even that of the Blackout spell. It's worth the cost.
One alternative that is easily missed is Sound Vision. Unlike a lot of other "vision" spells that just help you see through material X, this lets you see like a bat or dolphin. You have sonar. It's pricey (5/2, 1 minute), but if your targets don't have ultrasonic hearing, they won't hear you coming, and you can remain in the dark.
But what if you really need to have a light source, and/or can't afford to keep everyone under Dark Vision? If you party has a lot of mages, or can rattle off Mage Sight cheaply and easily, then Mage Light and Continual Mage Light are useful. Only mages can see the light, and thus see by it. So it's good for a party of elves (all have Magery 0), wizards, and folks under Mage Sight. As a plus, the guys under Mage Sight will spot magic items, too. The downside is that while non-mages can't see it, mages can, so "mages, magical creatures, and those under the influence of Mage Sight" are a real threat to you. Don't depend on Mage Light sneaking into the fortress of the Night Elves or the Evil Wizard College.
Their Vision - Okay, now how to we avoid them seeing you?
Invisibility is your go-to spell. It's not cheap (5/3, 1 minute - or 4/2, 1 minute in Dungeon Fantasy), but it works. It's a game-changer in combat, too, which is why DF hits it with a Gygaxian Nerf Bat and says you re-appear if you attack anyone. Its uses are obvious - combine it with sound and smell stealth spells or abilities, and vision in the dark, and you can sneak really well.
Smell - It's all for nothing if they smell you coming. Fortunately, GURPS has an answer.
No Smell: The name is one people goof on, but seriously, it's a great spell. It also serves as a reminder that many monsters will sense you without vision or sound. It won't help against Vibration Sense (Air) very much, but not much will, and against any smell-based opponents all the Invisibility and Mage-Stealth spells in the world won't help if they smell you coming. This helps against guard dogs, rust monsters (if they indeed smell metal), and other sharp-nosed critters.
Other Senses - Magical and unusual detection methods can be fooled, too.
Scryguard - Cheap and long-lasting (3/1, 10 hours), easy to learn (Magery 1 is the only prereq), and cheap to have cast on you in town, Scryguard helps protect against scrying magic - useful if your opponent is using information spells to detect you. Scryfool puts the finger on a decoy, which is good if you personally are being targeted, but generally that's a bit being "sneaking around in a dungeon" territory. It might be valid in your personal enemy's dungeon, though.
False Aura - Kinda cheap and long-lasting (4/2, 10 hours), this one lets you disguise your magical aura as something else. If your opponent is using magical detection to spot, say, the living guy in his armies of zombies, this is a good way to avoid it. In some games, with the right limitations on the Detect advantage and/or the ruling of the GM, it might stop a foe with Detect (Life, Precise) from finding you.
Levitation - Contrary to what my players often insist, this spell doesn't make you silent just because you're making no footfalls. But it will get rid of those footfalls, even if you still make noise (breathing, clanking or rustling, etc.) It's a handy way to deal with noisy footware, and eliminates the noises from climbing obstacles, too. But against creatures that detect via ground vibrations, or who depend on tripwires and noisemakers and nightingale floors to alert them, it's pure gold and should be worth a solid bonus to stealth if not totally eliminating detection. Much the same is with Walk on Air - you make footfalls, sure, but you'll avoid alarm systems.
What about Magic Items? - Some magic items exist that more or less duplicate the above spells. The GURPS Magic system gives a cost to enchant an item under each spell that can be so used. It's a simple enough task to figure out the cost and make of an item that gives you Mage-Stealth or Levitation - or at least lets you cast it. Potions of Invisibility exist, but are pretty expensive compared to the spell.
Some non-magical stealthy gear exists - soft-soled slippers in DF8, some of the ninja suits in DF12, and Thieves' Mail in DF1. I'll discuss these options and some tactics for sneaking in Part III. But generally, the more quietly you want to move through the dungeon, the more magic you need.
What if you still want to try it?
Magic will help.
It's been too many years since I played D&D, so all I know there is Invisibility and Silence 15' Radius. I don't know of any spells to help you see in the dark; D&D seemed to imply Infravision meant "see in the dark" in a way that GURPS doesn't. So the trick seemed to be have Continual Light or elves. I'd love to see someone else more familiar with D&D (current, recent, or old-school) post about it and I can link to it in this post.
At least in GURPS, there are a small but useful variety of spells you can use to help you sneak.
Note: I'm going to concentrate here on spells that counteract the detection methods I listed in Part I. I'm skipping spells that either let you "sneak" by some expanded definition of it - by teleporting in, say, or using Body of Shadow to explore, since these often have either serious downsides (can't carry stuff in Body of Shadow form) or serious risks and costs (Teleport, if you even have access to it). For the same reason I'm skipping disguise spells or other things that stop foes from successfully identifying you, but not from spotting you. Otherwise you can get into a too-broad and less useful definition that makes Ignite Fire a "sneaking" spell because you can light fires to distract guards and then sneak in. That's a bit beyond the scope of discussion.
Sound - Your first problem is being heard, since it carries much further than light does around twists and turns. GURPS has nothing quite matching AD&D's Silence 15' Radius, which is a utility spell masquerading as an attack spell.
Here are some ways around making noise, or at least increasing your Stealth score and thus your ability to pad along quietly at Move 1:
Grace - this gives a +1 or more to DX, which is a +1 to all Stealth rolls. It is generally cost-prohibitive (4/4 per level, 1 minute) however, but it's good in a pinch, and useful if you're planning to backstab right after you sneak.
Hush - A good spell, but you can't make sounds when you use it, either. All it gives is a +3 to Stealth or -5 to be heard. So it's a good start but it's not great because you can't speak if you suddenly need to. You can't make a sound. It's potentially useful to silence a guard, though, if you're sure you can beat his Will by enough.
By the way, it's probably simpler to make this spell give you Silence 3, with the limitation that you can't make sounds. Just smooths the rules a bit.
Mage Stealth - Now we're getting somewhere. As hush, but you can make sounds if you want to. This is the version you want, and it's not terribly pricey (3/2, 1 minute). Again, though, the issue is you can still be heard - not well (-5 to hearing, +3 to stealth) but it's possible. You can't pop this spell on and blithely run around the dungeon. Keep sneaking.
Silence and Wall of Silence are useful, too. Silence makes everything in the area quiet - good if you need to keep a group from speaking at all. Wall of Silence is more useful for sneaky camping - you can surround your camp with this spell, and no sounds escape. You can't hear them, either, so you might want to put some kind of visual tripwire or a guard outside of the wall. Neither spell will move around with you, so if you want to actively sneak as opposed to hide, you need Hush or Mage Stealth.
Vision - Vision, not lighting, is the first key. Lighting is bad, because light that lets you see can be seen from very far away. So don't waste time worrying about torches and light spells - it's all the same problem.
You really need to see in the dark to get around without giving away your position.
The Night Vision advantage is useful, but you still need some light to see, even with it maxed out (9 levels). So you can toss the Night Vision spell unless you're in a dungeon lit by its own light sources - torches in a fortified complex, say, or phosphorescent molds or unearthly glowing mushrooms. Night Vision will serve to negate the penalties that come with it, within their radius.
Infravision is helpful, too, but you suffer from only seeing heat patterns - differentiating color, a cold trap trigger from an equally cold normal wall, etc. is going to be a problem. It's not "I see the infrared spectrum and see in darkness as if it was daylight, too" - it's just the heat vision thing. So, equally, Infravision is helpful but not a cure-all.
You really want the Dark Vision spell, although it's somewhat costly (5/2, 1 minute). It's cost-prohibitive for most wizards to keep it on a whole party. Dark Vision will just let you see in darkness, even that of the Blackout spell. It's worth the cost.
One alternative that is easily missed is Sound Vision. Unlike a lot of other "vision" spells that just help you see through material X, this lets you see like a bat or dolphin. You have sonar. It's pricey (5/2, 1 minute), but if your targets don't have ultrasonic hearing, they won't hear you coming, and you can remain in the dark.
But what if you really need to have a light source, and/or can't afford to keep everyone under Dark Vision? If you party has a lot of mages, or can rattle off Mage Sight cheaply and easily, then Mage Light and Continual Mage Light are useful. Only mages can see the light, and thus see by it. So it's good for a party of elves (all have Magery 0), wizards, and folks under Mage Sight. As a plus, the guys under Mage Sight will spot magic items, too. The downside is that while non-mages can't see it, mages can, so "mages, magical creatures, and those under the influence of Mage Sight" are a real threat to you. Don't depend on Mage Light sneaking into the fortress of the Night Elves or the Evil Wizard College.
Their Vision - Okay, now how to we avoid them seeing you?
Invisibility is your go-to spell. It's not cheap (5/3, 1 minute - or 4/2, 1 minute in Dungeon Fantasy), but it works. It's a game-changer in combat, too, which is why DF hits it with a Gygaxian Nerf Bat and says you re-appear if you attack anyone. Its uses are obvious - combine it with sound and smell stealth spells or abilities, and vision in the dark, and you can sneak really well.
Smell - It's all for nothing if they smell you coming. Fortunately, GURPS has an answer.
No Smell: The name is one people goof on, but seriously, it's a great spell. It also serves as a reminder that many monsters will sense you without vision or sound. It won't help against Vibration Sense (Air) very much, but not much will, and against any smell-based opponents all the Invisibility and Mage-Stealth spells in the world won't help if they smell you coming. This helps against guard dogs, rust monsters (if they indeed smell metal), and other sharp-nosed critters.
Other Senses - Magical and unusual detection methods can be fooled, too.
Scryguard - Cheap and long-lasting (3/1, 10 hours), easy to learn (Magery 1 is the only prereq), and cheap to have cast on you in town, Scryguard helps protect against scrying magic - useful if your opponent is using information spells to detect you. Scryfool puts the finger on a decoy, which is good if you personally are being targeted, but generally that's a bit being "sneaking around in a dungeon" territory. It might be valid in your personal enemy's dungeon, though.
False Aura - Kinda cheap and long-lasting (4/2, 10 hours), this one lets you disguise your magical aura as something else. If your opponent is using magical detection to spot, say, the living guy in his armies of zombies, this is a good way to avoid it. In some games, with the right limitations on the Detect advantage and/or the ruling of the GM, it might stop a foe with Detect (Life, Precise) from finding you.
Levitation - Contrary to what my players often insist, this spell doesn't make you silent just because you're making no footfalls. But it will get rid of those footfalls, even if you still make noise (breathing, clanking or rustling, etc.) It's a handy way to deal with noisy footware, and eliminates the noises from climbing obstacles, too. But against creatures that detect via ground vibrations, or who depend on tripwires and noisemakers and nightingale floors to alert them, it's pure gold and should be worth a solid bonus to stealth if not totally eliminating detection. Much the same is with Walk on Air - you make footfalls, sure, but you'll avoid alarm systems.
What about Magic Items? - Some magic items exist that more or less duplicate the above spells. The GURPS Magic system gives a cost to enchant an item under each spell that can be so used. It's a simple enough task to figure out the cost and make of an item that gives you Mage-Stealth or Levitation - or at least lets you cast it. Potions of Invisibility exist, but are pretty expensive compared to the spell.
Some non-magical stealthy gear exists - soft-soled slippers in DF8, some of the ninja suits in DF12, and Thieves' Mail in DF1. I'll discuss these options and some tactics for sneaking in Part III. But generally, the more quietly you want to move through the dungeon, the more magic you need.
Monday, May 6, 2013
Sneaking in a Dungeon, Part I
Dungeon exploration game movement rules generally assume you are:
- trying to move quietly
- trying to map
- try to spot hidden danger or hidden anything
Let's talk about that first one, moving quietly - and more broadly, how do you sneak in a dungeon?
It seems like most people assume - for surprise, for wandering monsters, and especially for their own characters, that they're moving pretty quietly, stealthily, and generally make it hard to detect them. Not only that, but that they can see and hear pretty far themselves. How true is all of that?
Sound
How easy is it to move through an underground tunnel quietly?
"A base movement rate of 120' in 10 minutes may seem slow, but it assumes that the players are mapping carefully, searching, and trying to be quiet."
- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rulebook, ed. Tom Moldvay, p. B19
Moldvay pegs you at a movement rate of 1 yard every 15 seconds, which is pretty slow if you think about it - it's not a march, it's a very quiet and slow movement rate. Presumably, it's abstracted between speeds much like a lot of D&D is abstracted - overall, you get 120' every 10 minutes, which includes some quicker movement and stopping to look at things and draw your map. So you aren't burning along at a high pace, you're trying to be quiet. No word on how far that sound carries, that I can find anyway.
AD&D is a little more harsh. The DMG implies you're making some noise - thieves move at the normal rate silently if they make their Moving Silently check (well, if the GM does). Special versions of the Ring of Invisibility make you silent, too - as do Boots of Elvenkind. But heavy gear can make you noisy, and light get singled out as easy to spot under discussion of pursuit:
NOISE: Characters in metal armor can be heard for 90', hard boots can be heard at 60', relatively quiet movement can be
heard at 30'."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
So you can only be heard out to 30' if you're quiet, out to 60' clicking along in those hard boots you bought, and out to 90' if you're in metal armor - mail and plate wearers, look out.
No surprise, GURPS addresses this sort of thing directly, with a (pretty easy) rule for hearing distance. GURPS Underground Adventures has some more general rules for this sort of thing - specifically how far sound and light carry in an underground setting. Not surprisingly, sound can carry pretty damn far. Stone makes it echo, which can make localizing the sound hard (-2 to the roll in GURPS, per Underground Adventures p. 10) but tunnels carry the sound along pretty well.
While GURPS is pretty generous, in my opinion, about how loud walking is (half Move is a "normal conversation" and Stealth rolls work without extra penalties at Move 1 aka 1 yard per second) it's counteracted by how hard it can be to localize the sound. Not only that, it singles out combat and cane travel - aka tapping on the floor. Like, say, how a 10' pole would work. Rhythmic or a-rhythmic, tapping is pretty loud - and needs to be if you're using it to hear your way places or hear covered pit traps.
So you're giving up your best chance at not being heard by doing your best to avoid pit traps, tripwires, false floors, and unseen dropoffs. It's tap and likely be heard, or don't tap and take your chances with the floor.
Encumbrance matters for Stealth - you suffer your encumbrance level as a penalty to the roll. So heavy armor gets you, too, in GURPS. And either combat were blows are struck or tapping makes Stealth rolls impossible and makes it significantly easier to hear you!
Environmental factors will come up here, too. GURPS gives a +4 for most caves because they are quiet; but a megadungeon, for example, or occupied caves with monsters in them, will never really be quiet. I personally zero it out - the distant bangs, groans, creaks, drips, scrapes, etc. are enough to obscure some noises, but aren't so loud that they'll obscure them completely.
All in all, avoiding making noise is pretty hard, even without talking or fighting.
Light
"LIGHT: Straight line of sight is near infinite, any corner cuts distance to 60'."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
"Treat the light as in in plain sight to distance observers who have a clear view of it: +10 to Vision rolls to see it"
- GURPS Underground Adventures, p. 10
In either case, this works out to be the same thing - if they have line-of-sight on your light source, they're going to see you. Which mean all the sneaking in the world won't help unless you've extinguished your light sources and gotten away from other light sources. Fortunately (and GURPS points this out), light helps you see within its radius but obscures what's outside its radius. It's the "blinded by your campfire" issue - you adjust to the better light source and it effectively blinds you to what's outside of its radius.
This is one I find people forget the most - they'll move quietly, communicate by gesture, and otherwise minimize their sounds - as they sneak past the door with a half-dozen magical sources of extremely bright light. Oops.
Smell
"ODORS: Normal scent can be detected by creatures hunting or tracking by scent for several hours - even in a dungeon setting. Scent can be masked with various things - mustard powder, oil of citronella, crushed stinging nettle, etc."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
I like how it singles out scents. Although I think there is a mistake waiting to happen there - yes, citronella will mask your odor, but it's a different and strong odor. It might easily alert something even if it convinced smell-hunting unintelligent monsters not to bother you because you don't smell like food. Active camouflage like this can backfire pretty easily. A better approach would seem to be either match your smell to nearby creatures (ala Disguise (Animals) in GURPS) or eliminating it (the No-Smell spell in GURPS).
But yeah, smell is potentially important.
GURPS Basic Set doesn't spend much time on smell, but I think it's worth having any monster that can smell make a roll if stinky stuff comes by - adventurers burning torches, stinking of sweat and blood, fresh meat, etc.
"If anyone sneaks up on us, J'zargo will smell them coming. Or he might not. We'll see."
- J'Zargo the Khajit, Skyrim
Discriminatory Smell is a perfect case for this - with it, a critter might detect what's coming, and tell the difference between "delver stinking of sweat and tension and metal" and "one of those juicy giant rats." Don't forget to check if they smell the adventurers coming - and it's yet another dimension a sneaky group needs to use.
Other Senses
In a fantasy game especially, other senses matter. Monsters might have Vibration Sense and feel you coming. They might have Detect Life (Precise) and sense your presence no matter how quiet you are. They may have magical triggers to alert them to your proximity. Even the sneakiest of folks can fall prey to supernatural detection. If the monsters have it, you need to have an idea how close anyone could get before they just get detected. And those trying to sneak up need to figure out clever counters . . .
We Speak in Sign Language
Coupled with a good way to see in the dark, this isn't bad. But it's limited, and all the PCs will need to learn it. Even then, it's hard to fight quietly . . . which brings us to combat.
What about combat?
Combat sounds will carry everywhere. The odds that you're quietly sneaking up to a room, quietly forcing the door, and/or quietly neutralizing monsters is pretty low. Especially that last bit - it's hard to kill quietly.
In Basic D&D, if you aren't quiet in the first place, your chance of a surprise drops to nil:
"EXAMPLES: A party is no likely to surprise a monster behind a closed door if the party has just fought a battle near that door. A party will not surprise a monster if the attempt to open the door fails (even once!)"
- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rulebook, ed. Tom Moldvay, p. B23
Same in GURPS - a fight counts at least as "loud conversation" (no penalty at 4 yards), more (presumably no penalty at 8 yards) if metal armor is struck. -0 at 8 yards means it's only -3 to hear at 512 yards if you're in a normal 10' x 10' dungeon corridor. Oops, there goes the element of surprise in the orc complex. Once they've heard you, it's not that much harder (despite the -2 above) to locate the sound and figure out what it is. Even if they don't, kiss Total Surprise goodbye, and Partial Surprise might go bye-bye too if they're actively preparing to fight.
Gunfire is ridiculously loud (see GURPS High-Tech for details), so if you're using primitive guns or really loud magic (Thunderclap, any Explosive Spells, etc.), it's going to wake up the whole damn dungeon.
So fighting and weapon use is noisy.
Whether denizens will react or not is a different issue - maybe they're like me, and are used to some "outside noises" - police cars, neighbors, the fire truck heading out, the train rolling by. Or maybe they're in a quiet zone and hyper-sensitive. Maybe they known from experience that bangs and crashes and shouts of combat are a sign that easy food is around, or that extreme danger approaches. But between light, sound, and smell, it seems hard to stay truly quiet in the dungeon.
There is a nice bit here of Rob Kuntz discussing playing Robilar solo in Gary Gygax's game. The encounters were set up for groups, with the assumption that a big noisy group is coming. He used magic to achieve surprise by staying quiet and unseen (and presumably using some kind of light-free vision source) and attacking by surprise. This is something that just isn't terribly reasonable in a group.
Not without magic - which I'll cover in Part II - and possibly good gear and tactics, covered in Part III.
- trying to move quietly
- trying to map
- try to spot hidden danger or hidden anything
Let's talk about that first one, moving quietly - and more broadly, how do you sneak in a dungeon?
It seems like most people assume - for surprise, for wandering monsters, and especially for their own characters, that they're moving pretty quietly, stealthily, and generally make it hard to detect them. Not only that, but that they can see and hear pretty far themselves. How true is all of that?
Sound
How easy is it to move through an underground tunnel quietly?
"A base movement rate of 120' in 10 minutes may seem slow, but it assumes that the players are mapping carefully, searching, and trying to be quiet."
- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rulebook, ed. Tom Moldvay, p. B19
Moldvay pegs you at a movement rate of 1 yard every 15 seconds, which is pretty slow if you think about it - it's not a march, it's a very quiet and slow movement rate. Presumably, it's abstracted between speeds much like a lot of D&D is abstracted - overall, you get 120' every 10 minutes, which includes some quicker movement and stopping to look at things and draw your map. So you aren't burning along at a high pace, you're trying to be quiet. No word on how far that sound carries, that I can find anyway.
AD&D is a little more harsh. The DMG implies you're making some noise - thieves move at the normal rate silently if they make their Moving Silently check (well, if the GM does). Special versions of the Ring of Invisibility make you silent, too - as do Boots of Elvenkind. But heavy gear can make you noisy, and light get singled out as easy to spot under discussion of pursuit:
NOISE: Characters in metal armor can be heard for 90', hard boots can be heard at 60', relatively quiet movement can be
heard at 30'."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
So you can only be heard out to 30' if you're quiet, out to 60' clicking along in those hard boots you bought, and out to 90' if you're in metal armor - mail and plate wearers, look out.
No surprise, GURPS addresses this sort of thing directly, with a (pretty easy) rule for hearing distance. GURPS Underground Adventures has some more general rules for this sort of thing - specifically how far sound and light carry in an underground setting. Not surprisingly, sound can carry pretty damn far. Stone makes it echo, which can make localizing the sound hard (-2 to the roll in GURPS, per Underground Adventures p. 10) but tunnels carry the sound along pretty well.
While GURPS is pretty generous, in my opinion, about how loud walking is (half Move is a "normal conversation" and Stealth rolls work without extra penalties at Move 1 aka 1 yard per second) it's counteracted by how hard it can be to localize the sound. Not only that, it singles out combat and cane travel - aka tapping on the floor. Like, say, how a 10' pole would work. Rhythmic or a-rhythmic, tapping is pretty loud - and needs to be if you're using it to hear your way places or hear covered pit traps.
So you're giving up your best chance at not being heard by doing your best to avoid pit traps, tripwires, false floors, and unseen dropoffs. It's tap and likely be heard, or don't tap and take your chances with the floor.
Encumbrance matters for Stealth - you suffer your encumbrance level as a penalty to the roll. So heavy armor gets you, too, in GURPS. And either combat were blows are struck or tapping makes Stealth rolls impossible and makes it significantly easier to hear you!
Environmental factors will come up here, too. GURPS gives a +4 for most caves because they are quiet; but a megadungeon, for example, or occupied caves with monsters in them, will never really be quiet. I personally zero it out - the distant bangs, groans, creaks, drips, scrapes, etc. are enough to obscure some noises, but aren't so loud that they'll obscure them completely.
All in all, avoiding making noise is pretty hard, even without talking or fighting.
Light
"LIGHT: Straight line of sight is near infinite, any corner cuts distance to 60'."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
"Treat the light as in in plain sight to distance observers who have a clear view of it: +10 to Vision rolls to see it"
- GURPS Underground Adventures, p. 10
In either case, this works out to be the same thing - if they have line-of-sight on your light source, they're going to see you. Which mean all the sneaking in the world won't help unless you've extinguished your light sources and gotten away from other light sources. Fortunately (and GURPS points this out), light helps you see within its radius but obscures what's outside its radius. It's the "blinded by your campfire" issue - you adjust to the better light source and it effectively blinds you to what's outside of its radius.
This is one I find people forget the most - they'll move quietly, communicate by gesture, and otherwise minimize their sounds - as they sneak past the door with a half-dozen magical sources of extremely bright light. Oops.
Smell
"ODORS: Normal scent can be detected by creatures hunting or tracking by scent for several hours - even in a dungeon setting. Scent can be masked with various things - mustard powder, oil of citronella, crushed stinging nettle, etc."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, Gary Gygax, p. 68
I like how it singles out scents. Although I think there is a mistake waiting to happen there - yes, citronella will mask your odor, but it's a different and strong odor. It might easily alert something even if it convinced smell-hunting unintelligent monsters not to bother you because you don't smell like food. Active camouflage like this can backfire pretty easily. A better approach would seem to be either match your smell to nearby creatures (ala Disguise (Animals) in GURPS) or eliminating it (the No-Smell spell in GURPS).
But yeah, smell is potentially important.
GURPS Basic Set doesn't spend much time on smell, but I think it's worth having any monster that can smell make a roll if stinky stuff comes by - adventurers burning torches, stinking of sweat and blood, fresh meat, etc.
"If anyone sneaks up on us, J'zargo will smell them coming. Or he might not. We'll see."
- J'Zargo the Khajit, Skyrim
Discriminatory Smell is a perfect case for this - with it, a critter might detect what's coming, and tell the difference between "delver stinking of sweat and tension and metal" and "one of those juicy giant rats." Don't forget to check if they smell the adventurers coming - and it's yet another dimension a sneaky group needs to use.
Other Senses
In a fantasy game especially, other senses matter. Monsters might have Vibration Sense and feel you coming. They might have Detect Life (Precise) and sense your presence no matter how quiet you are. They may have magical triggers to alert them to your proximity. Even the sneakiest of folks can fall prey to supernatural detection. If the monsters have it, you need to have an idea how close anyone could get before they just get detected. And those trying to sneak up need to figure out clever counters . . .
We Speak in Sign Language
Coupled with a good way to see in the dark, this isn't bad. But it's limited, and all the PCs will need to learn it. Even then, it's hard to fight quietly . . . which brings us to combat.
What about combat?
Combat sounds will carry everywhere. The odds that you're quietly sneaking up to a room, quietly forcing the door, and/or quietly neutralizing monsters is pretty low. Especially that last bit - it's hard to kill quietly.
In Basic D&D, if you aren't quiet in the first place, your chance of a surprise drops to nil:
"EXAMPLES: A party is no likely to surprise a monster behind a closed door if the party has just fought a battle near that door. A party will not surprise a monster if the attempt to open the door fails (even once!)"
- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rulebook, ed. Tom Moldvay, p. B23
Same in GURPS - a fight counts at least as "loud conversation" (no penalty at 4 yards), more (presumably no penalty at 8 yards) if metal armor is struck. -0 at 8 yards means it's only -3 to hear at 512 yards if you're in a normal 10' x 10' dungeon corridor. Oops, there goes the element of surprise in the orc complex. Once they've heard you, it's not that much harder (despite the -2 above) to locate the sound and figure out what it is. Even if they don't, kiss Total Surprise goodbye, and Partial Surprise might go bye-bye too if they're actively preparing to fight.
Gunfire is ridiculously loud (see GURPS High-Tech for details), so if you're using primitive guns or really loud magic (Thunderclap, any Explosive Spells, etc.), it's going to wake up the whole damn dungeon.
So fighting and weapon use is noisy.
Whether denizens will react or not is a different issue - maybe they're like me, and are used to some "outside noises" - police cars, neighbors, the fire truck heading out, the train rolling by. Or maybe they're in a quiet zone and hyper-sensitive. Maybe they known from experience that bangs and crashes and shouts of combat are a sign that easy food is around, or that extreme danger approaches. But between light, sound, and smell, it seems hard to stay truly quiet in the dungeon.
There is a nice bit here of Rob Kuntz discussing playing Robilar solo in Gary Gygax's game. The encounters were set up for groups, with the assumption that a big noisy group is coming. He used magic to achieve surprise by staying quiet and unseen (and presumably using some kind of light-free vision source) and attacking by surprise. This is something that just isn't terribly reasonable in a group.
Not without magic - which I'll cover in Part II - and possibly good gear and tactics, covered in Part III.
Saturday, May 4, 2013
Mixed Feelings on Wandering Monsters
First, when I say wandering monsters, what am I talking about? What are wandering monsters, as defined by the games I've played?
"Wandering Monsters
“Wandering monsters”are hostile things that traipse around looking for trouble. They might actively patrol a wilderness area or an underground dungeon. They could even pop in from Hell without rhyme or reason!"
- GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons, p. 20
"Wandering Monster -General term for any encounter not previously keyed by the DM; usually refers to the periodic check for monsters in dungeons."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 230
In other words, either monsters who are just moving around the dungeon or you just didn't plan for.
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy has rules for checks, and I've used them. The rules are fine. In fact, I've even proposed expanding them so you roll whenever you're in a fight with other monsters, planned or unplanned - aka, dogpiling wandering monsters. Like how this card works in Munchkin:
Wandering monsters can be a lot of fun - and monsters moving around helps deal with PCs who don't. Camping PCs, PCs digging through the floor or steadily bashing down the walls, etc. - wandering monsters come by and attack the PCs and it costs them resources for sitting there.
But sometimes, I just find them annoying. Weak, dumb monsters aren't a terribly big threat to an organized group, or one that's being alert. Strong, dumb monsters aren't in such big supply that they can be filling the hallways.
In D&D-ish games, where only AC and initiative can prevent damage, wandering monsters are a threat. They might get the drop on you and get in a round of attacking, hit, and inflict some damage-cost on you. Or they may survive a round of pounding and equally hurt you before they die. In GURPS, this is much less likely in my experience. Unless it's a serious threat to the life of the party, it often feels like it's just a time-waster for everyone involved. And if it's a serious threat level of a monster, I have to wonder why I didn't place it in my dungeon (more on that below.) Nuisance monsters - spiders, jellies, giant rats, minor patrols of humanoids - aren't powerful enough to be real threat and get beaten easily.
So I'm finding they disrupt play more than they extract a cost for lollygagging in the dungeon.
Of course, getting annoyed with having wandering monsters isn't unique to me. This quote should secure my old-school cred if I decide to forgo the rolls when they're in the way of play:
"For example, the rules call for wandering monsters, but these can be not only irritating - if not deadly - but the appearance of such can actually spoil a game by interfering with an orderly expedition." - AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 9
Even Gary Gygax acknowledged they could do more harm than good, sometimes.
So what to do?
I have a couple of "wandering monster" tables, but I don't always use them. Instead, I will sometimes roll on my table to see what comes by, and other times I'll just have a nearby creature react to the noise (I mentioned this a while back.) That way, it's a combination of "just out wandering" and "unplanned reaction from nearby enemies."
I think this is more of the tactic I need. Make it a "who do you alert in the neighborhood?" kind of situation.
If I was being more systematic about it - and in the future I might - I could roll my d6 but make the entries like this:
1 - (monster)
2 - (monster)
3 - (monster)
4 - (monster)
5,6 - Nearby creature(s) alerted, comes to investigate.
I could even merge it with the wandering monster roll itself, although it'll skew the percentages a bit. If the chances of an encounter are 9 or less, then an 8 or 9 could be "nearby creature investigates."
But I'm not sure about that, yet.
Still another option is to, say, roll a "wandering monster check" for all the nearby monsters. Basically, an activation roll - do they get motivated to react to the disturbance? In a classic dungeon, they might or might not. Living creatures are living because they aren't dumb enough to go out and look into any disturbance, I figure. Only truly badass monsters can take the risk of leaving their stronghold area and going out looking for a fight just because all that iron-spike tapping is disturbing them.*
So rather than roll them up, I could roll to see if they get activated. In this case, the "dogpiling" rule I linked to above isn't necessary - the separate rolls for each will determine who comes.
Another option is to combine both - some areas, especially wilderness, would use a table.
"The desert is swarming with bands of hostile creatures, and adventurers will encounter them from time to time.
- GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Adventure 1: Mirror of the Fire Demon
In those cases, there is no outside limitation on what could be around the area.
Others would use a mixed table, like the above - everything from "these guys are wandering far and wide from their base in area #11" to "oops, you woke up the minotaur in the room nearby, and he's coming for a looksee."
But all together, I'm still finding myself making less wandering monster checks and more judgment calls - just eyeballing who is nearby and deciding if they're likely to get involved or not.
I like the idea of wandering monsters, and of a resource/danger tax on lingering in places you don't belong, but I'm finding the effect isn't what I wanted. More "time waster fights" than "real danger of harm." Less fun-for-time for everyone, GM and players included.
So I haven't really made up my mind which way I want to roll things and run things, going forward.
* This is the "once shot a man for snoring too loud" thing. See John Wesley Hardin; also in GURPS Who's Who 2.
"Wandering Monsters
“Wandering monsters”are hostile things that traipse around looking for trouble. They might actively patrol a wilderness area or an underground dungeon. They could even pop in from Hell without rhyme or reason!"
- GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons, p. 20
"Wandering Monster -General term for any encounter not previously keyed by the DM; usually refers to the periodic check for monsters in dungeons."
- AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 230
In other words, either monsters who are just moving around the dungeon or you just didn't plan for.
GURPS Dungeon Fantasy has rules for checks, and I've used them. The rules are fine. In fact, I've even proposed expanding them so you roll whenever you're in a fight with other monsters, planned or unplanned - aka, dogpiling wandering monsters. Like how this card works in Munchkin:
Wandering monsters can be a lot of fun - and monsters moving around helps deal with PCs who don't. Camping PCs, PCs digging through the floor or steadily bashing down the walls, etc. - wandering monsters come by and attack the PCs and it costs them resources for sitting there.
But sometimes, I just find them annoying. Weak, dumb monsters aren't a terribly big threat to an organized group, or one that's being alert. Strong, dumb monsters aren't in such big supply that they can be filling the hallways.
In D&D-ish games, where only AC and initiative can prevent damage, wandering monsters are a threat. They might get the drop on you and get in a round of attacking, hit, and inflict some damage-cost on you. Or they may survive a round of pounding and equally hurt you before they die. In GURPS, this is much less likely in my experience. Unless it's a serious threat to the life of the party, it often feels like it's just a time-waster for everyone involved. And if it's a serious threat level of a monster, I have to wonder why I didn't place it in my dungeon (more on that below.) Nuisance monsters - spiders, jellies, giant rats, minor patrols of humanoids - aren't powerful enough to be real threat and get beaten easily.
So I'm finding they disrupt play more than they extract a cost for lollygagging in the dungeon.
Of course, getting annoyed with having wandering monsters isn't unique to me. This quote should secure my old-school cred if I decide to forgo the rolls when they're in the way of play:
"For example, the rules call for wandering monsters, but these can be not only irritating - if not deadly - but the appearance of such can actually spoil a game by interfering with an orderly expedition." - AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 9
Even Gary Gygax acknowledged they could do more harm than good, sometimes.
So what to do?
I have a couple of "wandering monster" tables, but I don't always use them. Instead, I will sometimes roll on my table to see what comes by, and other times I'll just have a nearby creature react to the noise (I mentioned this a while back.) That way, it's a combination of "just out wandering" and "unplanned reaction from nearby enemies."
I think this is more of the tactic I need. Make it a "who do you alert in the neighborhood?" kind of situation.
If I was being more systematic about it - and in the future I might - I could roll my d6 but make the entries like this:
1 - (monster)
2 - (monster)
3 - (monster)
4 - (monster)
5,6 - Nearby creature(s) alerted, comes to investigate.
I could even merge it with the wandering monster roll itself, although it'll skew the percentages a bit. If the chances of an encounter are 9 or less, then an 8 or 9 could be "nearby creature investigates."
But I'm not sure about that, yet.
Still another option is to, say, roll a "wandering monster check" for all the nearby monsters. Basically, an activation roll - do they get motivated to react to the disturbance? In a classic dungeon, they might or might not. Living creatures are living because they aren't dumb enough to go out and look into any disturbance, I figure. Only truly badass monsters can take the risk of leaving their stronghold area and going out looking for a fight just because all that iron-spike tapping is disturbing them.*
So rather than roll them up, I could roll to see if they get activated. In this case, the "dogpiling" rule I linked to above isn't necessary - the separate rolls for each will determine who comes.
Another option is to combine both - some areas, especially wilderness, would use a table.
"The desert is swarming with bands of hostile creatures, and adventurers will encounter them from time to time.
- GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Adventure 1: Mirror of the Fire Demon
In those cases, there is no outside limitation on what could be around the area.
Others would use a mixed table, like the above - everything from "these guys are wandering far and wide from their base in area #11" to "oops, you woke up the minotaur in the room nearby, and he's coming for a looksee."
But all together, I'm still finding myself making less wandering monster checks and more judgment calls - just eyeballing who is nearby and deciding if they're likely to get involved or not.
I like the idea of wandering monsters, and of a resource/danger tax on lingering in places you don't belong, but I'm finding the effect isn't what I wanted. More "time waster fights" than "real danger of harm." Less fun-for-time for everyone, GM and players included.
So I haven't really made up my mind which way I want to roll things and run things, going forward.
* This is the "once shot a man for snoring too loud" thing. See John Wesley Hardin; also in GURPS Who's Who 2.
Thursday, May 2, 2013
GURPS Weapons & Tactics: Throwing Weapons
So you want to go throwing away a perfectly good weapon?
Why do it?
Range - Sometimes you need to reach out an touch someone you can't otherwise touch. This happens sometimes in a big melee you really need to help a friend and can't reach the enemy threatening him. Sometimes you have a flank or back shot on someone that's across the room - chuck your weapon into him. This is perhaps the best way to throw a weapon - take advantage of someone who turns their back because they feel like they're out of threat range.
Expert Tip: Remember that a successful Fast-Draw is instant, or nearly so. And GURPS Martial Arts says you can attempt one after willingly releasing your weapon - specifically including throwing it! (GURPS Martial Arts, p. 103) So you can throw and then try to quickly ready a weapon to defend yourself. Smart fighters learn Fast-Draw and keep a good backup weapon they can use it with, for this reason - throw, fast draw a replacement, and parry the next attack! A failed Fast-Draw means you don't get it out - so don't fail your roll!
Parry Penalties - most thrown weapons inflict a -1 to Parry on your opponent, -2 if they're small like knives and shuriken (see p. B376). If your opponent really depends on Parry, you can inflict this penalty on him. It's tough, though, because Dodge and Block are unpenalized.
One warning, though - if your opponent's Parry succeeds by 5 or more, he can catch your thrown weapon (p. B373.) So throwing axes at Throwing Art master Shaolin monks is a bad idea, generally.
You Need to Move - you can Move and Attack with only -2 or the Bulk penalty of the weapon (whichever is worse) as a penalty to hit. If you really need to move and really need to launch an attack with better than a max of a 9 to hit, this might be the trick.
You Need to Change Weapons - why drop it if you can throw it effectively? Okay, dropping it is a free action, so it might mean you can get in an attack with the new weapon. But it's worth considering if pitching your throwable weapon into someone is a better way to get rid of the weapon.
So that's when to throw. What should you throw?
Let's look at some of your choices, including those in Basic Set and Low-Tech.
What weapons?
What to throw?
Axes - a solid choice. Axes do swing/cutting damage. They're also excellent melee weapons, so an axe balanced for throwing is a useful way to dice up people in melee and and keeps the constant threat that you can toss it into someone if you need to. Their range isn't bad, either - ST and STx1.5 is okay for a reach-out-and-touch-someone throw in what is otherwise a melee. Hatchets are good if you want a good throwing axe with longer range.
Maces are a more marginal choice - swing/crush is not as good as swing/cutting most of the time. But if it's all you have, you can throw it with as much effectiveness as swinging it.
Iron hungamungas are an intersting choice if you want an axe that'll potentially bend on impact. I can't remember why we didn't do this in the books, but in my own games I give them +1 to hit because of all the pointy/bladed impact surfaces. It makes them crappy melee weapons but better throwing weapon.
Spears - There is a strong "impaling sucks" feeling out there, especially in games with unnatural creatures (who may lack vitals, be homogenous or unliving, etc.) If you think impaling sucks and it's a bad choice, spears are a bad choice. But I generally think they're a pretty good choice. Against living foes, thr+3 impaling is pretty solid damage and opens up vitals as a target. Range is pretty solid (same as axes), and pretty good accuracy. Javelins are less effective in terms of damage but have better range and more accuracy. Either improves if you throw it with a thong - range and Acc both go up.
The cost and weight aren't bad, either, and it's a solid melee choice, too.
Knives - A marginal choice. Knife throwing seems to work well in movies, comics, and abstract combat systems - you throw and hit the throat (which no one seems to armor for some reason) or the eye (surprisingly easy to hit), usually. In GURPS, though, it doesn't do so well. They're fairly pricey ($20 and up), not that small (Bulk starts are -1 and gets worse), and short ranged. On top of that, they do a low amount of thrust/impaling damage. Reasonably or even fairly lightly armored targets will ignore most hits.
As a plus, though, it's a useful melee weapon so you might have it to hand - and GURPS doesn't require a re-ready to switch to a throwing grip from a fighting grip. They are also harder to defend against - they are parried at a -2!
Note that the smallest of hungamungas are thrown with knife throwing skill - so if you must throw knives, consider some small hungamungas and get swinging damage.
Darts - good range, bad damage. A much longer range knife, really. Bulk -2 makes them a good Move and Attack throwing option.
Discs - so-so damage, good range. The chakram is thr+1/cut, which isn't so wonderful, but range is out to STx6 so it's not bad as an ersatz missile weapon substitute.
Sticks - really good range, and very solid damage - swing/crushing and you can throw up to STx10 range with a boomerang.
Shuriken - another marginal choice, like knives, because they are both low-damage and short ranged. Realistically, shuriken aren't in and of themselves lethal. They need to be envenomed to have some real effect. Realistically they are distractions, and seemed to have gotten the most use in ages when concealed weapons and unarmored foes were the norm (such as Tokugawa era and early/pre-Meiji era Japan). If your opponent doesn't suspect a thrown weapon and you wing it at his unarmored limbs, you've got an edge in the upcoming fight.
Their main upsides in GURPS is that they are easy to conceal (Bulk 0) and light (1/10 lb.) - so you can buy and carry a lot of them and hide them fairly easily.
Harpoons - Harpoons historically were thrown into whales, their tether tied off to boats, and the whale couldn't escape. That's pretty much what you get here. It's a heavy spear ($60 and 6 lbs instead of $40 and 4 lbs) with a tether (what length isn't specified, nor is its thickness). Damage is excellent - thr+5 impale! - and if it sticks in, it may get stuck (p. B405 and B411). That's a blessing and a curse. If you want to tether your foe to you, or to something else, the harpoon is a good weapon. If you want your weapon back, or don't care to be tethered to your opponent, it's just a heavy spear.
Mark Langsdorf asked about it in melee - William Knowles pointed out this is covered in Low-Tech, p. 72)
As you can see, generally, the dedicated throwers have better range. The mixed-mode weapons, though, are a safer choice because you're ready to fight with it in hand-to-hand and have the option to throw. If you really need to hit at range, think "missile weapon" not "thrown weapon." But missile weapons are a whole different issue.
Don't forget, next week, Thursday May 9th, is the next GURPS Melee Academy! Details can be found in this post by Doug Cole, or right here:
"Taking advantage of attack/defense timing in GURPS," which can certainly be leveraging Wait in good ways - and bad - but can also be things like two-man fighting where one person soaks up defenses, while the other looks to score hits, or pairing a Reach C, 1 guy with a Reach 1,2 guy. I might even look at fight timing with respect to grappling moves, also including Waits.
Write your thoughts, put it here or in your Blog and link it here, and let's get it on (next week, nine days hence)."
Write blog on the topic, let the other posters know, and join in on the fun!
Why do it?
Range - Sometimes you need to reach out an touch someone you can't otherwise touch. This happens sometimes in a big melee you really need to help a friend and can't reach the enemy threatening him. Sometimes you have a flank or back shot on someone that's across the room - chuck your weapon into him. This is perhaps the best way to throw a weapon - take advantage of someone who turns their back because they feel like they're out of threat range.
Expert Tip: Remember that a successful Fast-Draw is instant, or nearly so. And GURPS Martial Arts says you can attempt one after willingly releasing your weapon - specifically including throwing it! (GURPS Martial Arts, p. 103) So you can throw and then try to quickly ready a weapon to defend yourself. Smart fighters learn Fast-Draw and keep a good backup weapon they can use it with, for this reason - throw, fast draw a replacement, and parry the next attack! A failed Fast-Draw means you don't get it out - so don't fail your roll!
Parry Penalties - most thrown weapons inflict a -1 to Parry on your opponent, -2 if they're small like knives and shuriken (see p. B376). If your opponent really depends on Parry, you can inflict this penalty on him. It's tough, though, because Dodge and Block are unpenalized.
One warning, though - if your opponent's Parry succeeds by 5 or more, he can catch your thrown weapon (p. B373.) So throwing axes at Throwing Art master Shaolin monks is a bad idea, generally.
You Need to Move - you can Move and Attack with only -2 or the Bulk penalty of the weapon (whichever is worse) as a penalty to hit. If you really need to move and really need to launch an attack with better than a max of a 9 to hit, this might be the trick.
You Need to Change Weapons - why drop it if you can throw it effectively? Okay, dropping it is a free action, so it might mean you can get in an attack with the new weapon. But it's worth considering if pitching your throwable weapon into someone is a better way to get rid of the weapon.
So that's when to throw. What should you throw?
Let's look at some of your choices, including those in Basic Set and Low-Tech.
What weapons?
What to throw?
Axes - a solid choice. Axes do swing/cutting damage. They're also excellent melee weapons, so an axe balanced for throwing is a useful way to dice up people in melee and and keeps the constant threat that you can toss it into someone if you need to. Their range isn't bad, either - ST and STx1.5 is okay for a reach-out-and-touch-someone throw in what is otherwise a melee. Hatchets are good if you want a good throwing axe with longer range.
Maces are a more marginal choice - swing/crush is not as good as swing/cutting most of the time. But if it's all you have, you can throw it with as much effectiveness as swinging it.
Iron hungamungas are an intersting choice if you want an axe that'll potentially bend on impact. I can't remember why we didn't do this in the books, but in my own games I give them +1 to hit because of all the pointy/bladed impact surfaces. It makes them crappy melee weapons but better throwing weapon.
Spears - There is a strong "impaling sucks" feeling out there, especially in games with unnatural creatures (who may lack vitals, be homogenous or unliving, etc.) If you think impaling sucks and it's a bad choice, spears are a bad choice. But I generally think they're a pretty good choice. Against living foes, thr+3 impaling is pretty solid damage and opens up vitals as a target. Range is pretty solid (same as axes), and pretty good accuracy. Javelins are less effective in terms of damage but have better range and more accuracy. Either improves if you throw it with a thong - range and Acc both go up.
The cost and weight aren't bad, either, and it's a solid melee choice, too.
Knives - A marginal choice. Knife throwing seems to work well in movies, comics, and abstract combat systems - you throw and hit the throat (which no one seems to armor for some reason) or the eye (surprisingly easy to hit), usually. In GURPS, though, it doesn't do so well. They're fairly pricey ($20 and up), not that small (Bulk starts are -1 and gets worse), and short ranged. On top of that, they do a low amount of thrust/impaling damage. Reasonably or even fairly lightly armored targets will ignore most hits.
As a plus, though, it's a useful melee weapon so you might have it to hand - and GURPS doesn't require a re-ready to switch to a throwing grip from a fighting grip. They are also harder to defend against - they are parried at a -2!
Note that the smallest of hungamungas are thrown with knife throwing skill - so if you must throw knives, consider some small hungamungas and get swinging damage.
Darts - good range, bad damage. A much longer range knife, really. Bulk -2 makes them a good Move and Attack throwing option.
Discs - so-so damage, good range. The chakram is thr+1/cut, which isn't so wonderful, but range is out to STx6 so it's not bad as an ersatz missile weapon substitute.
Sticks - really good range, and very solid damage - swing/crushing and you can throw up to STx10 range with a boomerang.
Shuriken - another marginal choice, like knives, because they are both low-damage and short ranged. Realistically, shuriken aren't in and of themselves lethal. They need to be envenomed to have some real effect. Realistically they are distractions, and seemed to have gotten the most use in ages when concealed weapons and unarmored foes were the norm (such as Tokugawa era and early/pre-Meiji era Japan). If your opponent doesn't suspect a thrown weapon and you wing it at his unarmored limbs, you've got an edge in the upcoming fight.
Their main upsides in GURPS is that they are easy to conceal (Bulk 0) and light (1/10 lb.) - so you can buy and carry a lot of them and hide them fairly easily.
Harpoons - Harpoons historically were thrown into whales, their tether tied off to boats, and the whale couldn't escape. That's pretty much what you get here. It's a heavy spear ($60 and 6 lbs instead of $40 and 4 lbs) with a tether (what length isn't specified, nor is its thickness). Damage is excellent - thr+5 impale! - and if it sticks in, it may get stuck (p. B405 and B411). That's a blessing and a curse. If you want to tether your foe to you, or to something else, the harpoon is a good weapon. If you want your weapon back, or don't care to be tethered to your opponent, it's just a heavy spear.
Mark Langsdorf asked about it in melee - William Knowles pointed out this is covered in Low-Tech, p. 72)
As you can see, generally, the dedicated throwers have better range. The mixed-mode weapons, though, are a safer choice because you're ready to fight with it in hand-to-hand and have the option to throw. If you really need to hit at range, think "missile weapon" not "thrown weapon." But missile weapons are a whole different issue.
Don't forget, next week, Thursday May 9th, is the next GURPS Melee Academy! Details can be found in this post by Doug Cole, or right here:
"Taking advantage of attack/defense timing in GURPS," which can certainly be leveraging Wait in good ways - and bad - but can also be things like two-man fighting where one person soaks up defenses, while the other looks to score hits, or pairing a Reach C, 1 guy with a Reach 1,2 guy. I might even look at fight timing with respect to grappling moves, also including Waits.
Write your thoughts, put it here or in your Blog and link it here, and let's get it on (next week, nine days hence)."
Write blog on the topic, let the other posters know, and join in on the fun!
Wednesday, May 1, 2013
My DF Game: Consolidated and Merged Skills
I tend to prefer a smaller number of broader skills in my games. To that end, I consolidated and merged a few skills in my DF game.
This isn't my "dream merge" list - if I was doing a game from scratch, I might tighten the list further. But I want to be able to use other people's stuff easily, and pre-published stuff easily, so big changes are out.
Merged Skills
Filch - I've merged that with Pickpocket, as discussed here.
Connoisseur (Weapons) - Merged its function of evaluating price into Armoury (Melee Weapons) and (Missile Weapons.) I'm with Mark Langsdorf on this one - it's very narrow and really, I'm fine with "It's Dwarven and it's worth 400!" being one skill.
Main-Gauche - Eliminated in favor of Knife. If you want to fight off-hand with a Knife, learn Knife. But what about the fencing parry bonus? If the weapon has a F on it, you get it. Otherwise, no.
Physiology (Monster type) and Psychology (Monster type) - Merged with the appropriate Hidden Lore specialty. My main goal with skills like these is to allow people to make rolls to see if they know how to do X to creature Y, or answer the question "What does this character know about these creatures?" They can make it about physiology ("Do I know where its vitals are?") or psychology ("Do demons want money or souls or what?") if they want. This one is recent, I realized I don't want them after this person asked about them. This also has the nice effect of making the base templates that use them better at this kind of stuff, without making everyone else by default unable to target the vitals of strange monsters.
Shield (Buckler) - All shields are covered with Shield, not split into Shield and Shield (Buckler). Bucklers are just harder to hold on to and worse in slams and bashes, but faster to ready. Both get one skill.
Smuggling - merged into Holdout, again, discussed here. DF is not a game that really needs both. Good at one means good at both, I'm fine with that.
Some skills just got nixed as useless in my game:
Hiking - This is one that would be useful in a wilderness game with real time constraints/resource restraints. In my megadungeon game, it's useless, so I give the points back to the guys who have it on their template - Scout and Barbarian, for example. Why charge them for things I'm not going to make them roll?
Shadowing - in my dungeon-based DF game, this is useless. So I just use it off its Stealth default (Stealth-4 on foot) and leave it at that.
I'm still debating merged Strategy and Tactics, as an unnecessary over-specialization of skills in a game that's rarely about leading troops. But I haven't yet, because I'm not sure I want to make that leap quite yet - especially since it would mean Wizards potentially are great at aiding buddies in tactical combat (Strategy is a Background Skill for that template.) But it's on the table.
As you can see, I haven't gone nuts. But I've narrowed down the skills that cover similar ground a little bit. These are few enough that I can easily use pre-made characters with little problem (dump a skill here, put the points there). Bigger changes would mean less portability of the characters, too.
Why not just use Wildcard skills, you might ask? Simple. I don't want that loose of a feel to my game. I don't want Knights and Thieves and Barbarians to have all of their skills identical, all covered by Knight! or Thief! or Barbarian! That's not the feel I want, I just want a slightly narrowed list of things to buy, track, and use.
This isn't my "dream merge" list - if I was doing a game from scratch, I might tighten the list further. But I want to be able to use other people's stuff easily, and pre-published stuff easily, so big changes are out.
Merged Skills
Filch - I've merged that with Pickpocket, as discussed here.
Connoisseur (Weapons) - Merged its function of evaluating price into Armoury (Melee Weapons) and (Missile Weapons.) I'm with Mark Langsdorf on this one - it's very narrow and really, I'm fine with "It's Dwarven and it's worth 400!" being one skill.
Main-Gauche - Eliminated in favor of Knife. If you want to fight off-hand with a Knife, learn Knife. But what about the fencing parry bonus? If the weapon has a F on it, you get it. Otherwise, no.
Physiology (Monster type) and Psychology (Monster type) - Merged with the appropriate Hidden Lore specialty. My main goal with skills like these is to allow people to make rolls to see if they know how to do X to creature Y, or answer the question "What does this character know about these creatures?" They can make it about physiology ("Do I know where its vitals are?") or psychology ("Do demons want money or souls or what?") if they want. This one is recent, I realized I don't want them after this person asked about them. This also has the nice effect of making the base templates that use them better at this kind of stuff, without making everyone else by default unable to target the vitals of strange monsters.
Shield (Buckler) - All shields are covered with Shield, not split into Shield and Shield (Buckler). Bucklers are just harder to hold on to and worse in slams and bashes, but faster to ready. Both get one skill.
Smuggling - merged into Holdout, again, discussed here. DF is not a game that really needs both. Good at one means good at both, I'm fine with that.
Some skills just got nixed as useless in my game:
Hiking - This is one that would be useful in a wilderness game with real time constraints/resource restraints. In my megadungeon game, it's useless, so I give the points back to the guys who have it on their template - Scout and Barbarian, for example. Why charge them for things I'm not going to make them roll?
Shadowing - in my dungeon-based DF game, this is useless. So I just use it off its Stealth default (Stealth-4 on foot) and leave it at that.
I'm still debating merged Strategy and Tactics, as an unnecessary over-specialization of skills in a game that's rarely about leading troops. But I haven't yet, because I'm not sure I want to make that leap quite yet - especially since it would mean Wizards potentially are great at aiding buddies in tactical combat (Strategy is a Background Skill for that template.) But it's on the table.
As you can see, I haven't gone nuts. But I've narrowed down the skills that cover similar ground a little bit. These are few enough that I can easily use pre-made characters with little problem (dump a skill here, put the points there). Bigger changes would mean less portability of the characters, too.
Why not just use Wildcard skills, you might ask? Simple. I don't want that loose of a feel to my game. I don't want Knights and Thieves and Barbarians to have all of their skills identical, all covered by Knight! or Thief! or Barbarian! That's not the feel I want, I just want a slightly narrowed list of things to buy, track, and use.
Monday, April 29, 2013
Notes on Yesterday's Session
Just a few loose ends from last session.
- Here is a picture of the 33 druagr advancing on the party, after the Create Fire spell died down. The fallen one in the back got knocked over by accident, it's not a true reflection of the situation.
Again, thanks to Bruno for making them for me. Well, drawing them for me, I printed, glued, and based them. Those are my BattleTech boxed set bases and the bases from my Paranoia GM Screen pack.
- Last session was a 2 XP session - no profit (no loot at all, actually) (-1 point), only a tiny bit of meaningless exploration (-2 points), and nothing exciting to report out of it (no bonuses.) Tough day at work.
- We changed alchemist's fire a bit. DF1 says it is a "two hex radius." I made my flaming oil pots the same size. But "two hex radius" is hard to do on a hex map. My players decided extending two hexes out from a centerpoint was too big - it worked to be almost 5 hexes across, with lots of half-hexes of questionable "am I on fire or not?" issues. So we changed it to a 2 area effect, like a spell - so it affects the hex it hits, and the surrounding ones.
- I love the thought process behind "let's throw monster A at monster B," even if they couldn't figure out how to make it work.
- I might have to enforce, or at least suggest, a maximum planning time on my sessions. As in, after 1 hour I'm just going to declare you start heading to the dungeon, and that's that. It was a fun session, but man, it was a long bit of planning.
- there was a brief discussion, never followed through on, of using Illusion Disguise on Chuck Morris to make him look like Baron Sterick the Red and sending him in to talk to the druagr and demand the guy they wanted follow him. Chuck Morris shot it down because he's no actor (it would be at a default, and not a good one, and they know nothing of the Baron's mannerisms, quirks, or way of speaking, which is a further penalty). But it would have been funny. "As you can plainly see, I am your Baron, not some wandering martial artist disguised as him. Obey me!"
- I think they oddly lost sight of the main goal - getting treasure. They really wanted to deal with the druagr and loot them, but it ended up not working and costing so much time they couldn't look for treasure elsewhere.
- My players are firm believers in snaking a victory instead of smashing straight through to one. If there is a clever way around it, they want to find it. If there is any way to make the fight unfair, or completely lopsided in their favor, or beat it with a single spell, they want to try it. Having Wild Talent (Spells only) makes this worse, because it becomes "find the correct spell to unlock this puzzle." They don't like to resort to a fair fight unless they have to. Admirable in general.
But I think sometimes you can overthink a problem, or try to turn a tough fight into a puzzle. Not saying they could or should try to take the druagr straight-up, but it's an example of trying to find a way to use the "rules" of their undead status as a lever to win an easy victory. Throw oil and we win. Send a servant in with no hostile intent and shoot the pot of oil he's holding and we win. Create Earth and use Earth to Stone to put rocks on their sarcophogi so they can't escape and we win. Create a wall they can't get past and shoot them until they die, etc. Again, I'm not saying this is bad behavior, or that charge right in was the right idea (it might be a terrible idea, like the end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid level of bad idea). But I know from experience sometimes it's possible to get so wrapped up in solving the puzzle that you don't recognize that it's not a puzzle - think of the Gordian Knot.
- One plan revolved around casting Ethereal Body on a druagr. It's not a resisted spell, and I ruled that if there is no listed resistance, the spell is "willing subject only." There was some argument it meant "resist with the better of Will or HT" but I shot that down - way, way, way too many spells become powerful offensive options in that case.
Like I said, just a few notes I wanted to get down somewhere.
- Here is a picture of the 33 druagr advancing on the party, after the Create Fire spell died down. The fallen one in the back got knocked over by accident, it's not a true reflection of the situation.
Again, thanks to Bruno for making them for me. Well, drawing them for me, I printed, glued, and based them. Those are my BattleTech boxed set bases and the bases from my Paranoia GM Screen pack.
- Last session was a 2 XP session - no profit (no loot at all, actually) (-1 point), only a tiny bit of meaningless exploration (-2 points), and nothing exciting to report out of it (no bonuses.) Tough day at work.
- We changed alchemist's fire a bit. DF1 says it is a "two hex radius." I made my flaming oil pots the same size. But "two hex radius" is hard to do on a hex map. My players decided extending two hexes out from a centerpoint was too big - it worked to be almost 5 hexes across, with lots of half-hexes of questionable "am I on fire or not?" issues. So we changed it to a 2 area effect, like a spell - so it affects the hex it hits, and the surrounding ones.
- I love the thought process behind "let's throw monster A at monster B," even if they couldn't figure out how to make it work.
- I might have to enforce, or at least suggest, a maximum planning time on my sessions. As in, after 1 hour I'm just going to declare you start heading to the dungeon, and that's that. It was a fun session, but man, it was a long bit of planning.
- there was a brief discussion, never followed through on, of using Illusion Disguise on Chuck Morris to make him look like Baron Sterick the Red and sending him in to talk to the druagr and demand the guy they wanted follow him. Chuck Morris shot it down because he's no actor (it would be at a default, and not a good one, and they know nothing of the Baron's mannerisms, quirks, or way of speaking, which is a further penalty). But it would have been funny. "As you can plainly see, I am your Baron, not some wandering martial artist disguised as him. Obey me!"
- I think they oddly lost sight of the main goal - getting treasure. They really wanted to deal with the druagr and loot them, but it ended up not working and costing so much time they couldn't look for treasure elsewhere.
- My players are firm believers in snaking a victory instead of smashing straight through to one. If there is a clever way around it, they want to find it. If there is any way to make the fight unfair, or completely lopsided in their favor, or beat it with a single spell, they want to try it. Having Wild Talent (Spells only) makes this worse, because it becomes "find the correct spell to unlock this puzzle." They don't like to resort to a fair fight unless they have to. Admirable in general.
But I think sometimes you can overthink a problem, or try to turn a tough fight into a puzzle. Not saying they could or should try to take the druagr straight-up, but it's an example of trying to find a way to use the "rules" of their undead status as a lever to win an easy victory. Throw oil and we win. Send a servant in with no hostile intent and shoot the pot of oil he's holding and we win. Create Earth and use Earth to Stone to put rocks on their sarcophogi so they can't escape and we win. Create a wall they can't get past and shoot them until they die, etc. Again, I'm not saying this is bad behavior, or that charge right in was the right idea (it might be a terrible idea, like the end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid level of bad idea). But I know from experience sometimes it's possible to get so wrapped up in solving the puzzle that you don't recognize that it's not a puzzle - think of the Gordian Knot.
- One plan revolved around casting Ethereal Body on a druagr. It's not a resisted spell, and I ruled that if there is no listed resistance, the spell is "willing subject only." There was some argument it meant "resist with the better of Will or HT" but I shot that down - way, way, way too many spells become powerful offensive options in that case.
Like I said, just a few notes I wanted to get down somewhere.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
