W23 and Stretch Goals
So, one nice thing SJG has done is that, now that the Kickstarter campaign has funded, is that all W23 sales of GURPS and Pyramid count towards stretch goals. So you can go out and get some books (like, cough cough, these) and help expand the Kickstarter.
Shipping
SJG has also sorted out European and Australian shipping!
Add-Ons and Bonuses
The $250 level is packed full of stuff. One game, one Pyramid subscription, one set of PDFs, one game master's screen, and a plethora of PDFs - a great deal for $250. For long-time GURPS players like me, though, this isn't a great level. I own literally all of the PDFs included. They can add more, but I have those already. I wrote or co-wrote some of them. I could buy them so I could print out two copies, but honestly, I don't need that.
So I'm in at the $70 level, plus some PDFs. I'm debating the extra $5 for the GM screen on PDF, but will I really do anything with that? I'm not sure.
I'd really like to see more free add-ons to that level. Part of what I loved about the Bones Kickstarters was that, as the pledges rolled in, my initial pledge continued to get better. I felt invested in every person getting on board, and looked forward to new add-ons and finding out what more I got above and beyond my initial buy-in. It happened with Ogre, too, which is probably why it's not happening here - they don't want the initial box to expand.
Getting some free PDFs, exclusive backer-only content, or other improvements to the base set would be nice. It doesn't have to expand the box, just expand the take for the base levels.
And that's from someone who's PDFs will be included. Who has a stake in this thing succeeding, not just because I love the game, but because I write for the game and my material will get plunked into people's W23 accounts when this is all funded and over. I just like seeing the "base level" set being a good buy-in, and watching it grow.
Add-On Suggestions
Not that anyone is listening to me, but, I'd love Cardboard Heroes Dungeon Floors and Cavern Floors in PDF. I'd pay for those, and they'd fit perfectly with the boxed set. Even as printed-out copies. I said as much on their latest update, since they use the Dungeon Floors set as the illustration! Those things are very useful, and I could use more.
But the good news is, the DF boxed set will come out. I'm very excited.
Cardboard Heroes tiles would be great. Excellent point about the Bones Kickstarters--those were fantastic. A backer went from, "This is a good price for all these minis" to "Holy crap! I'm getting ALL these minis for the original price." That's the way to do a Kickstarter.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, I think additional adventures/modules would be great. Part of the appeal of D&D back in the day, especially the Red Box/Basic Set, was the ability to pick up modules that lessened game prep and made it easy for kids (and adults) to get into the game. Right now, DF is a great system, but I can see people who might be interested being intimidated by the amount of GM work that needs to be done. From my perspective, 5 starter adventures would really be great. D&D has been using that formula, in some fashion, with every release, and I think that helps grow the system and make it easy and fun to play.
I got in on the first Bones Kickstarter kind of late - and it was, "this is a great deal" and went to "this is just silly cheap." I've done add-ons because I wanted half of the minis in the add-on and even getting them at a discount place would cost more than the whole set right now, or close enough to not worry. I'd love some more of that, even if - to keep the box the same - it was just PDFs and printable add-ons.
DeleteYou're right on with the adventure. When the poll came up about the next PDF being a second adventure or a magic items compendium . . . I went with the adventure, even though I could easily write a magic items book myself. And I'd use one written by Sean. But GURPS needs more adventures and I'm not a good adventure writer. I'll do what I have to in order to get more of them out there for people to grab and go.
I really want to write an adventure for Dungeon Fantasy.
DeleteLike you, I'm formally at the $70 level because I already own all the PDFs, but I'm also in for an extra copy of the game plus a physical copy How To Be A GURPS GM. However, unlike you, I have a early teenage aspiring gamer around the house to give this stuff to.
ReplyDeleteI'm vaguely curious to see whether SJ Games will be paying discounted royalties on the PDFs for the "I Want It All" level (since they're essentially selling them at half price) or if they're going with the full amount (on which they'll take a bath, but I'll make a stack of quatloos).
I expect a discounted rate, but I'm rooting for all the samoleons!
DeleteI own all the existing DF PDFs, so I went for $105 (screen, plus PDF copies of the new DFRPG books). I'll check again right before the Kickstarter ends, to see if they've added enough goodies to make me want to upgrade. I'm happy to go for the I Want It All level if it gives me decent value, but unfortunately it's currently a great value only for people who don't have a lot of DF books.
ReplyDeleteI'm planning to run a newbie-friendly online DFRPG pickup megadungeon when the Kickstarter ships. Time to start redrawing paper maps in Roll20, and acquiring monster tokens.
Ooh, I will try to play it that and drag in players.
DeleteSpeaking as someone who plans to use Dungeon Fantasy and its associated products as a resource for building my own world, this Kickstarter is a fantastic deal. Not all of its assumptions apply, but as a worked example of fantasy play at a moderately high level of power, it seems to offers a lot.
ReplyDeleteBut, looking at it from the perspective of someone who might try to run it right out of the box, there's actually a lot that would give me pause. There's five rulebooks, totaling more than four hundred pages between them. That's a hefty amount of reading material, and the fact that they're not all immediately necessary (much of Monsters, Spells, and Dungeon are either situational or for the GM only) isn't apparent.
The fact that it also has dice, maps, and cardboard miniatures is only very briefly mentioned, and easily missed.
The list of add-ons is...extensive, and quite frankly it might actually be a turn-off. There's a few immediately useful add-ons, like the screen and the pdf copies, but it's followed by a long list of add-ons that are explicitly noted to not necessarily be 100% compatible with the boxed set.
I can easily see someone who wants a ready-to-run RPG looking at this and going "Okay, but what can I actually *use* in this?"
I'll also grant that, while I'm familiar with a number of RPGs, starter products and RPG Kickstarters are something new to me. My impressions might be completely off-base here.
Are you worried that the Kickstarter is giving so much stuff it might be a turn-off?
DeleteOr that the contents of the box are too much? That one, I wouldn't worry about. It's a full RPG, and while it's going to be useful to read all of it first, you can get by without reading much of it before you actually need it in play.
I'm sure I've tried to reply to this twice, and neither of them seem to have shown up...
DeleteThe short of it is that I think that the amount of information on the campaign page may be overwhelming to someone not familiar with GURPS or Dungeon Fantasy, and the large list of add-ons makes things seem more complex than they really are.
DeleteThere's also this comment on the Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/dungeon-fantasy-roleplaying-game-powered-by-gurps/comments?cursor=14434740#comment-14434739
DeleteThe fact that the boxed set on its own really is everything you need to play seems to have been missed.
Also, having a set of add-ons labeled "beginner" is confusing in and of itself, since it could imply that they're needed for play, rather than them being easily added to a DF RPG game.
Three people jumped in and answered, so I am not concerned. Also, the Campaign page clearly says you only need the box. Someone missed it, but that happens.
DeleteI'm at the $70 level, plus $35 for the PDFs, $5 for the screen PDF, and $15 for the Pyramid compilation.
ReplyDeleteFor someone starting, this is a good deal, considering that each D&D book is $50. Alright, get it from Amazon at $35 with shipping, but still.
I'm tempted by the Pyramid compilation. Has anyone done a table of contents or listed what articles must be included? I think I own most of the issues, but I'm too lazy to check issue by issue and see what I'm missing.
DeleteProbably both of my articles are going to be in there (and I am guessing that means I probably don't need to buy the book). Other than that it should be pretty easy to figure out what is probably in there, because the Kickstarter lists the relevant issues;I might do this today if I have time. Vvj J b
DeleteYeah, I see 3/70 Fourth Edition Festival is on the list, and I wrote a DF-themed article for that issue. So I can probably expect a comp.
DeleteHere you go: http://papermenplasticmonster.blogspot.com/2016/09/pyramid-dungeon-fantasy-collection.html
DeleteWhat's the case for getting the GM screen? I'm on the fence because I'm basically buying it unseen (by anyone if I understand correctly).
ReplyDeleteThe table included will really make or break its usefulness. And it's $20
I'd love to know what's on it. But I do know:
Delete- You will get a heavy 2mm chipboard screen
- a 16-page booklet written by Sean Punch
- a ?-page booklet of pre-written characters
I use a GM screen, D&D ones re-purposed with taped-on charts, and I'd like one specific to DF, so I went for it. I'd also like to know what's on it.
For me, the case is "it's probably going to be prettier than the GURPS 4E screen I use now, and will have the DF falling damage table on it, and maybe some new DFRPG tables." And also "I'm a DF completionist so of course I'm going to buy it."
DeleteMaybe that's a pretty weak case for $20, if you already have the GURPS 4E screen and care about $20. The GURPS 4E screen is out of print and used copies go for about $40, so this one is a better deal if you don't have it.
Of course the other options are generic screen with pockets (the Savage Worlds one is $24 on Amazon), or taping GURPS tables to an old screen you already have (clunky but essentially free).
If you just want the booklets I presume you can get the PDF version for $5.
I can certainly afford the $20, but we will see. That's pretty much a whole other RPG I could get for that sort of cost (I picked up all the Hillfolk PDFs for something similar).
DeleteI notice many people asking for a landscape screen. IMHO it would be nice if SJ Games outlined the proposed tables and if they could answer the requests one way or another.
There was a guy on the forums who did an A4 summary of tables. Those tables only for DD would be a good start.
I'm not sure what the cost to profit is on a GM screen but if it's say 50% of sale price a little more sales push would be in order.
I use a portrait screen - a mix of 1st edition and 3rd edition D&D screens festooned with GURPS charts and my own illustrations. Is landscape really that much of a game-changer to have it be 8 1/2 instead of 11?
DeleteMany seem to think so. Im just mulling over what is essentially two months worth of spending for me.
DeleteIn the end I've gone with the $70 option. We will see if I last minute change my mind.
DeletePerhaps I can sell all my old 3E stuff on Ebay to make some cash.
I own one DF PDF (Loadouts) and have had a very long-standing interest in GURPS DF. I wanted to get the $250 level because it's full of all the GURPS goodness I've been wanting to buy for the past seven years and I had the money for it in my pocket due to having fewer things to spend my money on, but when I looked into getting a card of some sort so I could fund it I deemed it would be financially irresponsible of me. And now it's too late for me to change my mind as I'll soon be needing to move somewhere else and the cheapest rent I can find is about twice what I've been paying where I am now.
ReplyDeleteI do fully intend to buy the box itself if it hits the shelves of any store I actually go to, and will simply continue wishing I could have bought all those other nice supplements.
The box is definitely coming out.
DeleteI hear you on the expense - I actually fund my hobby with my hobby, but that's a recent thing and it doesn't make for a huge gaming budget. You've got to allocate resources to the things you need before the things you want.
I have a very modest gaming spend each year and a slightly more modest portion of that for GURPS.
DeleteRecently I've spent most of my budget on stuff from Robin Laws and Ken Hite, because of many reasons, among them being they are out there doing great interesting well promoted books.
This Kickstarter will probably be my GURPS spend for the year. I'd still rather just spend my $10 a month paying to be in a regular GURPS game, but no one is offering that product :(
So you're saying I can charge my guys $10/month to play in my game? I see a new revenue stream in my future. ;)
DeleteI can't speak for them obviously. But GURPS is borderline impossible to have a game of in Sydney.
DeleteIm hoping a big glossy boxed set might help. I played 'Descent' the other day and seriously the game is utter garbage. Boring powers, boring characters, difficult to suspend disbelief, slow to play etc What it does have though is an auto GM, boxed set with miniatures, adventures and a whole range of other stuff that I think makes it more friendly than just some PDFs and hardcovers.
So if I had to pay $10 into a fund to get players or GMs I'd do that. Tinder for RPGs?
There was a two day game convention in western Sydney at $10 a day.
Only RPGs were D&D and CoC on the programme. Next year I'm hoping I can do DF, NBA or even Hillfolk!
I hope dripton runs the the game he's threatening to. Or someone else does, so you can play. I realized a while back I'm not interested in doing the work necessary to run an online game. But online play might be the best thing for you at this stage.
DeleteI could have a D&D, or Descent group now. Im just not willing to play the system (even though I loved the D&D PC games). Ive had a GURPS group before, and im sure the moment I lost them was when I broke out the chase rules on the fly and had to try to adapt them to a spread out party.
DeleteI really think more simplified 'I cant believe its GURPS' is one of the futures for the system.