In our last game, one of the PCs attempted an Acrobatic Dodge (Exploints, p. 48, and Campaigns, p. B375). He rolled an 18 on his Acrobatics roll.
What happens?
The player agued, nothing except a -2. An 18 is a failure, and a failure is a -2 to Dodge. It says that explicitly in both referenced rules.
I allowed that, but I'm still not convinced.
The argument in favor of the player's position is that the rule doesn't specify anything about a critical success or critical failure, so therefore they don't have any special effect.
But does the lack of a specific result for a critical failure overrule this basic, underlying rule for making skill rolls? Success Rolls (Exploits, p. 5-7, Campaigns p. B343-348) calls out what constitutes a critical success or critical failure. Does the lack of a specific result for critcial success or failure mean there are no critical successes or critical failures?
For my game, I am willing but not terribly happy to have Acrobatics rolls for Acrobatic Dodge insert the concept of "only skill rolls with specified critical results have criticals" into the game. I would restrict it only to rolls in this case. Largely, though, I'm not sure I like the implications . . . but for DF Felltower, I'll go with it and say it's only for this case and the related case of Aerobatics.
I personally think a critical failure should be awesomely bad and a critical success awesomely good
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I'd steal something from Dungeon Parkour or all the Action! Exploits acrobatics parkour crit fails.
DeleteI think if a specific rule intended to overrule the base rule it would specify that. Therefore, Acrobatics does not specify that critical success and failure have no special effect means that they do have a special effect.
ReplyDeleteIf critical failures are a default rule then I would definitely expect exceptions like no additional effect on a critical failure to be called out rather than left ambiguous like this.
ReplyDeleteSame. Even if you view it as a special case of Complimentary Skills, with a +2/-2 instead of the usual +1/-1, then a crit should turn it into a +4/-4 . . .
DeleteHm, it seems to me that pretty much every other Acrobatic technique (and Technique) includes Critical results, usually a Critical Failure resulting in assuming a prone (or, presumably, supine) posture.
ReplyDeleteOddly, this one case doesn't specify anything. To me, it should either have a really good effect - such as counting that +2 to Dodge against all attacks that turn, or allowing the character to add in something appropriate from Dungeon Parkour as a bonus, or something like that - or a really bad one, like falling and/or negating an included Retreat.
DeleteI still don't love going along with that argument the other day. I don't want the PCs to suffer and fail, but when you only fail on a 17-18, an 18 should still suck. Otherwise it's a 98.1% chance of a +2, 1.9% chance of a -2, no other risk. It's not typical for GURPS to steeply punish complimentary rolls, but it's not typical to have no consequences for an especially good or bad roll.
I feel like the main argument in favor of "no critical effects except when specified" -- is that the alternative is keeping an expanding index of house-ruled specific effects, perhaps accompanied by one or more generic effects and a list of rulings about when they apply. Having the lists can be more fun and interesting, while letting it slide without extra effects can streamline things at the table.
ReplyDelete(Apologies for my ignorance if there actually is a generic rule that clearly would normally apply here.)
You have a good point there, but GURPS has a basic approach that critical success and critical failure have especially good or bad effects, respectively. Some skills specify what that means, but the lack of specification doesn't broadly mean that there is no effect. You just have to wing it.
DeleteCrit fail on a Skill roll is a crit fail on a Skill roll. //Bad things// always happen on a crit fail for a Skill roll.
ReplyDeleteI'd just use the Unarmed Critical Miss table on pg 101 (DFRPG Exploits) for Acrobatic Dodge critical skill fails. If they're still capable of making a Dodge roll after that, then it's "just at a -2".
That's a clever solution.
DeleteI admittedly haven't given a lot of thought to this, and I agree that it seems weird to have a critical failure not cause problems, but I was swayed (in the moment, without reading the rules) by the lack of a corresponding bonus on a critical success. Having said that, I'm going to look at the rules and brainstorm a bit. @Evileeyore's idea is not a bad one, but what's the corresponding reward for a critical success? Maybe there isn't always one for skill rolls? Something to think about.
ReplyDeleteDid you see my earlier suggestions in a comment?
Delete