I finished some minis prep and a little painting got done somehow.
Pictures after the cut.
Monday, February 6, 2017
Sunday, February 5, 2017
Even more CP-based Grappling Reflections
Yesterday I posted about our use of stripped-down Technical Grappling from a bookkeeping and complexity perspective in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: Felltower.
But what about from a more technical perspective?
Why stripped down?
We basically stripped down TG to its bare bones to add to Dungeon Fantasy. This is largely because our Dungeon Fantasy combats are already stripped down. We use a subset of the combat rules, putting aside most things that add extra detail that seems extraneous in a game centered on fighting monsters in dungeons.
Grappling couldn't really be more nuanced or detailed than striking. So, for us it's not. All of those more fiddly bits in TG that allow a portrayal of grappling with more verisimilitude get shoved aside. It's the core mechanic I'm interested in - CP - so we centered on that.
How Stripped Down?
The core bit of TG to me is an effect-based roll for grappling. In Basic Set GURPS, you grapple, your foe gets an active defense, and if they fail they get grappled. Actions follow. In TG as we've implemented it, you grapple, your foe gets an active defense, and if they fail you roll a point-based effect roll that accumulates CP instead of reducing HP.
That's pretty much what we deal with - a roll, consequences, and move on.
It also has a useful sliding scale of awful that I find is critical for DF. As it stands in Basic Set grappling:
- Grappling is binary, and any grapple is a -4 to DX (subject to location rules).
- Breaking Free is binary.
- Pinning is binary and final.
- Grappling follow-up attacks either work or don't.
With DF-level heroes, these can feel a bit off. We had a fight with monsters stolen right from AD&D - ropers. They'd grapple, it was terrifically hard to stop them from doing so. Then, that was it. They could bite, but hey, the opponent has a -4 to DX and DX 14 and skill in the high 20s. -4? He accepts a -8 to -10 to hit just for Deceptive Attacks, so this just means your grapple is netting you a +2 to defend against his heavily deceptive multiple attacks. They couldn't really threaten much else without follow-on powers.
Equally, the PCs couldn't Break Free with any realistic hope of success. So they didn't bother. They'd complain about the rules, they'd groan if pinned. Getting pinned happened twice that I can remember in all of our years of gaming, and everyone complained then and now about it.
In TG grappling
- Grappling is on a sliding scale, meaning a grapple can inflict anything from no penalty to massive ST and DX penalties.
- Breaking free is cumulative.
- Pinning is a consequence of too many CP rather than a roll.
- Grappling follow-up attacks are more or less scary depending on how grappled you are.
What that's meant is that grappling isn't always going to inflict a -4 to DX, but it could be worse. It can get progressively worse. 8 CP on a ST 10 man gets you the standard -4 DX, but it'll be less on a ST 20 hero . . . yet that ST 20 hero might get grappled for 10, 20, 30+ CP. It feels both heroic to have a guy draped with grapplers still fighting on, but also fearing cumulative effects of ST and DX penalties.
The cumulative breaking free has meant you can eventually wriggle out of a hold, especially if your foe is distracted from just attacking to further control you. The drama of the CP effect roll is especially nice. So breaking free has been added to our games, basically. Before, people only did that as a perfunctory "I have no else to do so I'll try to break free" knowing they'd fail but having nothing else to do. Now it's a useful option, and it feels right that a good hold makes it harder and a good grappler can stuff your attempts to weaken a grip yet you can still get in benefits. Even when the CP are too high for you to get out from, lowering the damage your foe can inflict on you is very useful.
The "pinned and helpless" effect being from too many CP compared to your ST and DX just feels right. 10 HP of damage is lethal to a rat, fight-ending to a ST 10 human, and annoying to a HP 30 barbarian. So then is 10 CP fight-ending for a rat, seriously restricting to a ST 10 human, and annoying to the ST 20+ DX 13+ barbarian. Yet when it all adds up to too much, and you're helpless even with All-Out Attack (Determined) and Telegraphic Attack, you don't feel bad. It's not a "no, you can't" it's a "you could have, if you were stronger, faster, or kept a few of those CP off." That makes all the difference.
You can see this in the demon-ape fight, where grappling plays a big part but it's still dynamic, not yes-no grappled-free dead-fine. When PCs were grappled until helpless, it felt dramatic and like a normal consequence, not a "if I'd made that one roll, the fight would have gone differently" moment.
We've also had some "two can play at that game!" battles. Mo is especially fond of grappling those who've grappled him. Once he'd grappled one guy, got grappled by another, and even while being mauled choked the one he'd grabbed. You could do that with Basic Set, but the sliding penalties of CP made it work much easier.
But what about from a more technical perspective?
Why stripped down?
We basically stripped down TG to its bare bones to add to Dungeon Fantasy. This is largely because our Dungeon Fantasy combats are already stripped down. We use a subset of the combat rules, putting aside most things that add extra detail that seems extraneous in a game centered on fighting monsters in dungeons.
Grappling couldn't really be more nuanced or detailed than striking. So, for us it's not. All of those more fiddly bits in TG that allow a portrayal of grappling with more verisimilitude get shoved aside. It's the core mechanic I'm interested in - CP - so we centered on that.
How Stripped Down?
The core bit of TG to me is an effect-based roll for grappling. In Basic Set GURPS, you grapple, your foe gets an active defense, and if they fail they get grappled. Actions follow. In TG as we've implemented it, you grapple, your foe gets an active defense, and if they fail you roll a point-based effect roll that accumulates CP instead of reducing HP.
That's pretty much what we deal with - a roll, consequences, and move on.
It also has a useful sliding scale of awful that I find is critical for DF. As it stands in Basic Set grappling:
- Grappling is binary, and any grapple is a -4 to DX (subject to location rules).
- Breaking Free is binary.
- Pinning is binary and final.
- Grappling follow-up attacks either work or don't.
With DF-level heroes, these can feel a bit off. We had a fight with monsters stolen right from AD&D - ropers. They'd grapple, it was terrifically hard to stop them from doing so. Then, that was it. They could bite, but hey, the opponent has a -4 to DX and DX 14 and skill in the high 20s. -4? He accepts a -8 to -10 to hit just for Deceptive Attacks, so this just means your grapple is netting you a +2 to defend against his heavily deceptive multiple attacks. They couldn't really threaten much else without follow-on powers.
Equally, the PCs couldn't Break Free with any realistic hope of success. So they didn't bother. They'd complain about the rules, they'd groan if pinned. Getting pinned happened twice that I can remember in all of our years of gaming, and everyone complained then and now about it.
In TG grappling
- Grappling is on a sliding scale, meaning a grapple can inflict anything from no penalty to massive ST and DX penalties.
- Breaking free is cumulative.
- Pinning is a consequence of too many CP rather than a roll.
- Grappling follow-up attacks are more or less scary depending on how grappled you are.
What that's meant is that grappling isn't always going to inflict a -4 to DX, but it could be worse. It can get progressively worse. 8 CP on a ST 10 man gets you the standard -4 DX, but it'll be less on a ST 20 hero . . . yet that ST 20 hero might get grappled for 10, 20, 30+ CP. It feels both heroic to have a guy draped with grapplers still fighting on, but also fearing cumulative effects of ST and DX penalties.
The cumulative breaking free has meant you can eventually wriggle out of a hold, especially if your foe is distracted from just attacking to further control you. The drama of the CP effect roll is especially nice. So breaking free has been added to our games, basically. Before, people only did that as a perfunctory "I have no else to do so I'll try to break free" knowing they'd fail but having nothing else to do. Now it's a useful option, and it feels right that a good hold makes it harder and a good grappler can stuff your attempts to weaken a grip yet you can still get in benefits. Even when the CP are too high for you to get out from, lowering the damage your foe can inflict on you is very useful.
The "pinned and helpless" effect being from too many CP compared to your ST and DX just feels right. 10 HP of damage is lethal to a rat, fight-ending to a ST 10 human, and annoying to a HP 30 barbarian. So then is 10 CP fight-ending for a rat, seriously restricting to a ST 10 human, and annoying to the ST 20+ DX 13+ barbarian. Yet when it all adds up to too much, and you're helpless even with All-Out Attack (Determined) and Telegraphic Attack, you don't feel bad. It's not a "no, you can't" it's a "you could have, if you were stronger, faster, or kept a few of those CP off." That makes all the difference.
You can see this in the demon-ape fight, where grappling plays a big part but it's still dynamic, not yes-no grappled-free dead-fine. When PCs were grappled until helpless, it felt dramatic and like a normal consequence, not a "if I'd made that one roll, the fight would have gone differently" moment.
We've also had some "two can play at that game!" battles. Mo is especially fond of grappling those who've grappled him. Once he'd grappled one guy, got grappled by another, and even while being mauled choked the one he'd grabbed. You could do that with Basic Set, but the sliding penalties of CP made it work much easier.
Saturday, February 4, 2017
Do you need a Tenkar mini?
I'm not sure if I'll jump in on this one . . . but it's tempting to get my own Tenkar the Dwarven Bartender minis:
Star Hat Minis Delvers
Even if you aren't going to back it, check out the mini Tenkar. Smaller than life size, but has a stein just the the real thing.
Star Hat Minis Delvers
Even if you aren't going to back it, check out the mini Tenkar. Smaller than life size, but has a stein just the the real thing.
Friday, February 3, 2017
Some Experiences of Technical Grappling in DF
Douglas Cole mentioned my use of GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling in my Dungeon Fantasy game in a comment on G+. Basically, the question I'd like to address here is, how much work is a more nuanced grappling system?
It's worth noting that I use a stripped-down version of Technical Grappling. The full-on system is more than a game that uses a simplified set of combat rules needs. But I do use the central aspects of the system:
- Control Points (CP).
- Sliding penalties for having CP on you that depend on your ST.
- Grapples are mutual.
- CP are a cap on some effects.
- Skill affecting Trained ST.
So it's the essential elements of the system.
Bookkeeping
Yes, it involves some bookkeeping. Since it is a point-based system, you do need to keep track of who has points on who.
Generally I do this on the same scratch pad I use to track time in the dungeon, HP and status of bad guys, mana points of enemy casters, and so on. The CPs go up and down more than most of the others, but nonetheless, it's not a new problem or a unique addition of work. Instead of "Grappled" it's "7 CP = -3 ST -3 DX" or something like that.
It's not negligible, but it's a lot less onerous than it sounds. Generally you don't have a huge amount of grapples going on. Also, they're temporary and often go away suddenly (hey, the orc grabbing my arm was decapitated) so they're just notes so you don't lose track.
Complexity
Yes, it involves more complexity.
But it's generally positive complexity. Instead of yes/no grappling, lots of Contests of ST where you are very unlikely to succeed because the ST levels being so high, and binary results in general, you have nuance. All of that nuance is both hopeful (hey, I can possibly escape, and I'm making progress!) and terrifying (holy heck, that ape-demon has 32 CP on me! I'm dooooooooooooomed!)
Where you'd think the complexity would slow us down, it actually speed us up. CP limits on damage mean you can eyeball a lot of capped damage - and people feel a lot better about having such limits. A single grab doesn't mean 4d to the neck a second later, not until more CP have been built up. The limits on what you can effectively do being tied to a sliding scale of CP makes grappling more effective but not a save-or-suck roll.
It also means that cumulative grapples totaling up more CP means grappling monsters are not just latching on, inflicting -4 DX, and then that's that. They've got something to do - and PCs have a reasonable shot at undoing that directly ("I attack to break free" or "I slice the arm that's grabbed me") or indirectly ("I punch him in the skull, maybe I'll stun him.")
Overall
Our experience overall with CP-based grappling has been positive. Not a lot of bookkeeping, all of which is both temporary and inherently interesting to all involved. More complexity that spells more nuanced effects. More utility to grappling overall while also making attempts to break free more interesting.
The bookkeeping can be overblown. Yes, it's more than zero, but it's not a lot. The complexity, too - especially since CP-based grappling is tied to the same systems you use for strikes, so it's not forcing you to deal with parallel systems, only parallel effects paths.
If you're thinking of using TG or Dungeon Grappling, I'd say give it a go. It generally adds more than it costs to add it, and it's worth actually trying out before you decide yes or no.
It's worth noting that I use a stripped-down version of Technical Grappling. The full-on system is more than a game that uses a simplified set of combat rules needs. But I do use the central aspects of the system:
- Control Points (CP).
- Sliding penalties for having CP on you that depend on your ST.
- Grapples are mutual.
- CP are a cap on some effects.
- Skill affecting Trained ST.
So it's the essential elements of the system.
Bookkeeping
Yes, it involves some bookkeeping. Since it is a point-based system, you do need to keep track of who has points on who.
Generally I do this on the same scratch pad I use to track time in the dungeon, HP and status of bad guys, mana points of enemy casters, and so on. The CPs go up and down more than most of the others, but nonetheless, it's not a new problem or a unique addition of work. Instead of "Grappled" it's "7 CP = -3 ST -3 DX" or something like that.
It's not negligible, but it's a lot less onerous than it sounds. Generally you don't have a huge amount of grapples going on. Also, they're temporary and often go away suddenly (hey, the orc grabbing my arm was decapitated) so they're just notes so you don't lose track.
Complexity
Yes, it involves more complexity.
But it's generally positive complexity. Instead of yes/no grappling, lots of Contests of ST where you are very unlikely to succeed because the ST levels being so high, and binary results in general, you have nuance. All of that nuance is both hopeful (hey, I can possibly escape, and I'm making progress!) and terrifying (holy heck, that ape-demon has 32 CP on me! I'm dooooooooooooomed!)
Where you'd think the complexity would slow us down, it actually speed us up. CP limits on damage mean you can eyeball a lot of capped damage - and people feel a lot better about having such limits. A single grab doesn't mean 4d to the neck a second later, not until more CP have been built up. The limits on what you can effectively do being tied to a sliding scale of CP makes grappling more effective but not a save-or-suck roll.
It also means that cumulative grapples totaling up more CP means grappling monsters are not just latching on, inflicting -4 DX, and then that's that. They've got something to do - and PCs have a reasonable shot at undoing that directly ("I attack to break free" or "I slice the arm that's grabbed me") or indirectly ("I punch him in the skull, maybe I'll stun him.")
Overall
Our experience overall with CP-based grappling has been positive. Not a lot of bookkeeping, all of which is both temporary and inherently interesting to all involved. More complexity that spells more nuanced effects. More utility to grappling overall while also making attempts to break free more interesting.
The bookkeeping can be overblown. Yes, it's more than zero, but it's not a lot. The complexity, too - especially since CP-based grappling is tied to the same systems you use for strikes, so it's not forcing you to deal with parallel systems, only parallel effects paths.
If you're thinking of using TG or Dungeon Grappling, I'd say give it a go. It generally adds more than it costs to add it, and it's worth actually trying out before you decide yes or no.
Thursday, February 2, 2017
DF: Some threats can't be resisted
My threat philosophy in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy is that some things can't be stopped or resisted.
In game terms, some threats:
- ignore DR
- ignore defenses that should otherwise seem like they'd work
- carry a followup that happens even if you do defend
- ignore defenses entirely
- have no resistance roll of any kind
This is usually done by fiat, although mechanically it would be written up as some form of Cosmic, a rule that allow you to bypass such defenses. Some are just standard spells, like Curse, which doesn't come with a resistance roll.
It also means that some threats:
- reduce DR
- reduce defenses severely
- have steep resistance penalties
These are usually more direct - armor divisors, defense penalties, high-level Afflictions, etc.
I basically do this because I think it fits the power level of Dungeon Fantasy.
When you run a Dungeon Fantasy character, you get 250 points, 50 points in disadvantages, and up to 5 points in quirks. That's 305 positive points worth of ability. In other words, you are a powerful individual. You are well-equipped to stamp all over mundane threats. Especially with threats that aren't up to your standards.
You are amongst the small percent of adventurers capable of even facing such threats. No-resistance attacks, ridiculously skilled foes, enemies that regenerate HP faster than a squad of armed men could easily whittle them off, etc. - you're one of the few who can even contemplate victory against some threats.
Victory isn't assured, nor is your chance for victory even guaranteed to be a fair chance.
If it was, you wouldn't really need 250 points. Higher point characters would be, even more so, unchallenged.
Plus, it's a balance mechanism for entertainment. If all Will rolls are unmodified (and you always get one), if all skill rolls are against your best skill in the best circumstances, if you always get your choice of Dodge, Block, or Parry . . . you really aren't under a real threat. It's just not going to be as fun.
So if you're wondering about those mean, unfair, cannot be blocked or parried and does damage that ignores DR attacks, or poisons that just do damage or reduce stats, or monsters totally immune to everything you normally bring to the table . . . it's all in good fun. It's what makes your victories matter, and makes the points you received to build your character matter.
In game terms, some threats:
- ignore DR
- ignore defenses that should otherwise seem like they'd work
- carry a followup that happens even if you do defend
- ignore defenses entirely
- have no resistance roll of any kind
This is usually done by fiat, although mechanically it would be written up as some form of Cosmic, a rule that allow you to bypass such defenses. Some are just standard spells, like Curse, which doesn't come with a resistance roll.
It also means that some threats:
- reduce DR
- reduce defenses severely
- have steep resistance penalties
These are usually more direct - armor divisors, defense penalties, high-level Afflictions, etc.
I basically do this because I think it fits the power level of Dungeon Fantasy.
When you run a Dungeon Fantasy character, you get 250 points, 50 points in disadvantages, and up to 5 points in quirks. That's 305 positive points worth of ability. In other words, you are a powerful individual. You are well-equipped to stamp all over mundane threats. Especially with threats that aren't up to your standards.
You are amongst the small percent of adventurers capable of even facing such threats. No-resistance attacks, ridiculously skilled foes, enemies that regenerate HP faster than a squad of armed men could easily whittle them off, etc. - you're one of the few who can even contemplate victory against some threats.
Victory isn't assured, nor is your chance for victory even guaranteed to be a fair chance.
If it was, you wouldn't really need 250 points. Higher point characters would be, even more so, unchallenged.
Plus, it's a balance mechanism for entertainment. If all Will rolls are unmodified (and you always get one), if all skill rolls are against your best skill in the best circumstances, if you always get your choice of Dodge, Block, or Parry . . . you really aren't under a real threat. It's just not going to be as fun.
So if you're wondering about those mean, unfair, cannot be blocked or parried and does damage that ignores DR attacks, or poisons that just do damage or reduce stats, or monsters totally immune to everything you normally bring to the table . . . it's all in good fun. It's what makes your victories matter, and makes the points you received to build your character matter.
Wednesday, February 1, 2017
Writing Update
Quick update on writing, which might explain why there hasn't been as much in-depth material here. Well, that and getting distracted by other work, research and reading, and a lot of studies. I can paint or prep minis while I'm listening or watching work-related things, but I can't concentrate on writing and listening at the same time. So that's why there are so many minis lately!
As for writing:
- I put in a short Pyramid article expanding on something from GURPS Martial Arts that someone had suggested I'd expand. It was one of those, "Why doesn't X include Y?" questions that made we say, "Not only should I add Y, but Z and beyond." Hopefully it sees print.
- I started in on another Pyramid article, aimed at DF, which hopefully will be useful for beginners and veterans alike. Not a rules expansion so much as something to speed up a part of play that grinds things to a halt in my own games. Those kind of tools help me, and hopefully they'll help others.
- I put in the mental framework assembly to take some outtakes from a previous book submission into some kind of useful, usable, and most importantly saleable form. The actual writing isn't done, but I now know what I'm going to include.
I'm not sure what the timeline on any of these are like, but hopefully that's a rough order of when you'll see them.
As for writing:
- I put in a short Pyramid article expanding on something from GURPS Martial Arts that someone had suggested I'd expand. It was one of those, "Why doesn't X include Y?" questions that made we say, "Not only should I add Y, but Z and beyond." Hopefully it sees print.
- I started in on another Pyramid article, aimed at DF, which hopefully will be useful for beginners and veterans alike. Not a rules expansion so much as something to speed up a part of play that grinds things to a halt in my own games. Those kind of tools help me, and hopefully they'll help others.
- I put in the mental framework assembly to take some outtakes from a previous book submission into some kind of useful, usable, and most importantly saleable form. The actual writing isn't done, but I now know what I'm going to include.
I'm not sure what the timeline on any of these are like, but hopefully that's a rough order of when you'll see them.
Tuesday, January 31, 2017
Prepped minis - Iron Hills Dwarf and Conan
Okay, not actually Conan - but I bought a three-pack of barbarians just for this one guy because I think he looks like Conan.
They're prepped and mounted as is typical for me:
- inverted slotted base with the slot carved out with an x-acto knife just enough to wedge in the mini.
- super-glued down, then the base is filled with white glue and let dry.
- slot is filled with Golden Coarse Pumice Gel.
- Once glue dries the base is covered with Golden Coarse Pumice Gel to a uniform depth.
The dwarf on the left is from Iron Hills Dwarves II, and the barbarian on the right is from Elite Barbarian Raiders II
The axe on the barbarian is pretty thick - more than I like - but it's sturdy. I was considering up-arming the dwarf, but the sculpt is pretty tight so it's hard to find a good place to hand a crossbow, box of bolts, and a backup weapon, but he seems like that sort - "Yes, I have a two-handed weapon and a shield. And a sword. And a knife. And a crossbow. And if that doesn't work, check out these stompin' boots!" Oh well. As is he's battlefield ready. His shield is a Reaper Weapon Pack shield that I thought just looked nicer than the one he came with.
They're prepped and mounted as is typical for me:
- inverted slotted base with the slot carved out with an x-acto knife just enough to wedge in the mini.
- super-glued down, then the base is filled with white glue and let dry.
- slot is filled with Golden Coarse Pumice Gel.
- Once glue dries the base is covered with Golden Coarse Pumice Gel to a uniform depth.
The dwarf on the left is from Iron Hills Dwarves II, and the barbarian on the right is from Elite Barbarian Raiders II
The axe on the barbarian is pretty thick - more than I like - but it's sturdy. I was considering up-arming the dwarf, but the sculpt is pretty tight so it's hard to find a good place to hand a crossbow, box of bolts, and a backup weapon, but he seems like that sort - "Yes, I have a two-handed weapon and a shield. And a sword. And a knife. And a crossbow. And if that doesn't work, check out these stompin' boots!" Oh well. As is he's battlefield ready. His shield is a Reaper Weapon Pack shield that I thought just looked nicer than the one he came with.
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