Date: 11/1/2026
Weather: Cool and sunny.
Characters
Chop, human cleric (367 points)
Duncan Tesadic, human wizard (382 points)
Hannari Ironhand, dwarf martial artist (360 points)
Persistance Montgomery, human knight (367 points)
Thor Halfskepna, human knight (391 points)
Vladimir Luchnick, dwarf scout (343 points)
The PCs gathered in town and went right to the dungeon.
The PCs brought the Gith Master to the dungeon with them. They'd purchases a few sets of manacles, chains, and cloth. The corpse was manacled hands and feet, then those chained together, then gagged. They added trying dumping alkahest on the corpse but that didn't kill it, so they had Duncan cast Entombment just a few yards away from the edge of the stairs down to the first level, putting it - they think - into a bubble surrounded by stone and in Suspended Animation. Vlad confidently pronounced it taken care of forever. Thor practically jumping down his throat for hubris. "The (powers that be) are listening!" (His actual words were, The GM is listening.)
After that, they headed through the well entrance and down.
Long story short, they went right to the second GFS and in. Using Flight they ferried everyone across the deathtouch floor. They began to explore, first heading back to the secret door they're spotted last time. They spent a good 20-25 minutes searching around, pushing, pressing, feeling, scanning - nothing. Only the outline of a door and no way to open it. See Secrets made them sure they hadn't missed anything but they couldn't find anything. They'd even come back later and check the floor and ceiling, too.
They used Glasswall to see a hallway beyond the wall. They tried (but failed) to see what locking or movement mechanism the door uses.
Next was the vat room. They kept a healthy distance from the vats, and Vlad and Hannari kept a close eye on it.
Meanwhile Duncan searched the walls. From 3' off the floor to 9' off the floor, all around this roughly 50 yard diameter circle, were blocks of mixed pictograms and elder tongue. Some investigation showed a few types - some starting with animals and ending with animal-men, some with humanoids ending in other humanoids. One showed just goo shapes and more goo shapes. They picked a few and had Chop give Duncan fluency with written Elder Tongue. What he read - with Speed Reading - were "recipes" for creating monsters - turning large men (not normal-height ones) into ogres, turning goblins into hobgoblins, and creating slimes, oozes and puddings (and, oddly, "mimicking" mimics.) They only did those three, but he was able to puzzle out a few more - they think. Dogs or dog-like beings into maybe gnolls, hobgoblins into something else shorter and stockier, smaller humans to knob-covered short guys (they think norkers), pointy-eared humanoids into thicker pointy-eared humanoids or - with some crystals - into humanoids with a hood over their faces (no, not a pointy hat). None of them showed six fingers.
Naturally they began to scheme to come back here with a lot of time, a lot of saved points for Duncan, and make some allies.
They left the room and moved around the level, finding a room with a balcony and a few with windows. The balcony room overlooked a salt-covered cave; the window rooms showed out onto colored crystals, a large cave, and the same large cave. All had a slight warp in the air that could barely be seen at the windows or the edge of the balcony extending to the ceiling. Yet another room with windows looked out onto a cave with three hovering Eyes of Death. They opened up Vlad and wounded him mildly, and then much more as he backed off. Vlad shot arrows back and Hannari threw some meteoric stones threw the windows at them but the dodged with ease. Chop covered everyone with Protection from Evil - one of the best spells available to a cleric in DF - and the eyes backed off. They tried to go through the windows to attack but Agar's Wand couldn't, and Hannari's attempt to reach through caused him some toxic damage that ignored his DR and his Protection from Evil. Oops. They backed out of the room.
They explored a bit more before realizing they'd linked to a known area. They indentified what they call the "teleport naked" room that tripped up a previous group.
The group went back to the balcony room and explored the other way. They found a hallway with a gentle breeze towards them. Beyond it was a room with a black hemisphere, so Vlad shot it to pieces. Past it was a blocked-up hallway with unstable walls and ceiling - not so unstable that they'd fall easily, but unstable enough that using magic to dig out the rubble seemed risky. A final room was empty, but had a "deathtouch floor" which zapped Hannari.
Incidentally, so did the balcony and the windows - the same zapping barrier they'd found near the room letting onto the eyes of death cave.
So they went back to the secret door and used Shape Earth to open up one side of it. Beyond they used Glasswall on the inner secret door and saw a room with a set of 6 levers and a set of 3 levers.
That done, they headed back home. It was late and they didn't think it was worth taking a risk - the check of the barriers told them they couldn't harvest some crystals to make their loot totals.
Notes:
Vlad originally bought a coffin for the Gith Master. Well, priced it at $500, but couldn't bring himself to spend money on it - Miserliness. He tried the "I'm not miserly when it comes to saving my life" but if it doesn't apply then, when does it? The whole game is that. Miserly only when it's optional and useless expenditures is a quirk at best. Probably not even that - it's literally a quirk with no downside. In any case, Percy bought it but the left the coffin "on the surface." Not sure if that means in the ruins or not.
For those playing along at home, Elder Tongue.
XP was 1 each for exploration - a handful of new areas, and some in-depth looks at places PCs have been before. MVP was Chop for healing and Protection from Evil
Armed with what they learned about the vats, I think the old rumors and some previously garned information going back to 2011-2012 might make a lot more sense.
Fun session.
Sunday, November 1, 2026
Sunday, October 18, 2026
Felltower & Atheism disadvantage levels
Atheism in Felltower is always a disadvantage.
For an earlier discussion that underpins this, see my post on Felltower Religion & Intolerance.
Quirk-level: Thinking all magic is just magic, regardless of wether it comes from the Good God, or Nature, or wizardly Mana, is a quirk. It's seen as a misunderstanding. At worst, some (especially those with Intolerance) as a mild heresy. But it's unlikely to cause you any real trouble. It's just an oddity. Clerics react to you at a -1.
Delusion [-5] level: Characters who think there might be a big powerful being called the Good God, but that the Good God isn't the paramount diety or that the Good God doesn't have incredible power and reach, have this level of delusion. The "the Good God used to just be a powerful wizard" line of thought is this level of delusion. That the Good God exists and has powers and can provide a specific class of spells to its worshippers is provable fact. The Good God doesn't need your belief to exist. All that's required is your worship. Everyone reacts to you at a -1, clerics at a -3.
Delusion [-15] level: Not believing in the Good God as a God is a serious flaw. You'll be regarded as insane, dangerous, a heretic, and an idiot. Disbelieving in the existance of the Good God as a God is like disbelieving in rain or fire. Everyone reacts to you at a -3, and Clerics won't have better than a neutral reaction.
Believing in gods other than the Good God is fine, and isn't even a quirk. Disbelieving in them is best handed as Intolerance. Worshipping other gods is considered heretical, and is at least quirk-level and usually more like -5 level Delusion. Intolerance will handle the reactions back to that, too, and can and will stack.
Worshipping demons can get you excommunicated, but also cool powers - see Evil Clerics - but doesn't bode well for your reaction rolls in town.
For an earlier discussion that underpins this, see my post on Felltower Religion & Intolerance.
Quirk-level: Thinking all magic is just magic, regardless of wether it comes from the Good God, or Nature, or wizardly Mana, is a quirk. It's seen as a misunderstanding. At worst, some (especially those with Intolerance) as a mild heresy. But it's unlikely to cause you any real trouble. It's just an oddity. Clerics react to you at a -1.
Delusion [-5] level: Characters who think there might be a big powerful being called the Good God, but that the Good God isn't the paramount diety or that the Good God doesn't have incredible power and reach, have this level of delusion. The "the Good God used to just be a powerful wizard" line of thought is this level of delusion. That the Good God exists and has powers and can provide a specific class of spells to its worshippers is provable fact. The Good God doesn't need your belief to exist. All that's required is your worship. Everyone reacts to you at a -1, clerics at a -3.
Delusion [-15] level: Not believing in the Good God as a God is a serious flaw. You'll be regarded as insane, dangerous, a heretic, and an idiot. Disbelieving in the existance of the Good God as a God is like disbelieving in rain or fire. Everyone reacts to you at a -3, and Clerics won't have better than a neutral reaction.
Believing in gods other than the Good God is fine, and isn't even a quirk. Disbelieving in them is best handed as Intolerance. Worshipping other gods is considered heretical, and is at least quirk-level and usually more like -5 level Delusion. Intolerance will handle the reactions back to that, too, and can and will stack.
Worshipping demons can get you excommunicated, but also cool powers - see Evil Clerics - but doesn't bode well for your reaction rolls in town.
Wednesday, October 7, 2026
DF Felltower - Caps & Limits Draft II - Further Reflections
I'm still noodling around with my ideas in this last post.
Absolute Base Skill Cap
Skills are capped at 30. Skills above 30 can be purchased, or you can end up with them thanks due to stat boosts and buffs, but any skill about 30 will be discarded before applying any modifiers.
This is not an effective skill cap, it's a base skill cap.
This seems a little fairer than Stat+10 as a limit. It doesn't matter how you get it. DX 13 and Broadsword @ DX+17 is a fair build. But when you get DX 14, you have a 30. Stipulating it's not an effective skill cap means you can't, say, get 33, absorb -2 for Bad Footing and a -1 for a foe's SM and still have a 30. You can't get 34 and just always do at least -2 in Deceptive Attack. We lock it down to 30, and then apply any situational modifiers.
Safest way to deal with this is to stop getting skill somewhere in the mid-20s, and just know that sometimes you down a DX potion and wield a Balanced sword with Accuracy 3 and end up with a 30.
There are some downsides to this, but they should only fall on folks with a massive skill who then try to pile on a lot of bonuses.
Flat Effect Potions
I'm officially promoting this one to be up for a vote. I like the +3. It's still a very nice boost. Potions are still a fantastic way to gain a large bonus for a small cost with a long duration. But they're not going to be swingy if I get a solid yes vote on these.
Fixed-Effect Feint
Resolve a Feint, Beat, or Ruse normally.
If the attacker wins by the contest, the target defends at -4.
Extreme Feints
For high-skill fighters in cinematic games, this optional rule allows them to leverage their skill further. Resolve the Feint, Beat, or Ruse normally. If the attacker wins the contest, the target defends at -4. If the attacker wins the contest by 10+, the target defends at -8.
The other option is that Feints apply normally, but you can't inflict any more than -10 on your target. That's the cap.
Finally, it might be worth a defense cap, like the one discussed here. A maximum 20 defense before modifiers would get rid of a lot of need to defense-maximize, which means I don't need to find as many high-skill foes as possible just to give them a shot at hitting high-DX foes.
We'll see what everyone thinks of these.
This last big fight wasn't ruined by high skill, but I do want to make sure limits mean people know the upper bounded limits of the system. Put the limits in that allow for such a fight as a special occasion skill blowout, but not a defacto basis for character expectations. Skill bosses will still be dangerous, and PCs won't essentially out-DX and out-skill the entire monster catalog . . . with a high cost in character points and fun and a low return on investment in effectiveness within the game.
Absolute Base Skill Cap
Skills are capped at 30. Skills above 30 can be purchased, or you can end up with them thanks due to stat boosts and buffs, but any skill about 30 will be discarded before applying any modifiers.
This is not an effective skill cap, it's a base skill cap.
This seems a little fairer than Stat+10 as a limit. It doesn't matter how you get it. DX 13 and Broadsword @ DX+17 is a fair build. But when you get DX 14, you have a 30. Stipulating it's not an effective skill cap means you can't, say, get 33, absorb -2 for Bad Footing and a -1 for a foe's SM and still have a 30. You can't get 34 and just always do at least -2 in Deceptive Attack. We lock it down to 30, and then apply any situational modifiers.
Safest way to deal with this is to stop getting skill somewhere in the mid-20s, and just know that sometimes you down a DX potion and wield a Balanced sword with Accuracy 3 and end up with a 30.
There are some downsides to this, but they should only fall on folks with a massive skill who then try to pile on a lot of bonuses.
Flat Effect Potions
I'm officially promoting this one to be up for a vote. I like the +3. It's still a very nice boost. Potions are still a fantastic way to gain a large bonus for a small cost with a long duration. But they're not going to be swingy if I get a solid yes vote on these.
Fixed-Effect Feint
Resolve a Feint, Beat, or Ruse normally.
If the attacker wins by the contest, the target defends at -4.
Extreme Feints
For high-skill fighters in cinematic games, this optional rule allows them to leverage their skill further. Resolve the Feint, Beat, or Ruse normally. If the attacker wins the contest, the target defends at -4. If the attacker wins the contest by 10+, the target defends at -8.
The other option is that Feints apply normally, but you can't inflict any more than -10 on your target. That's the cap.
Finally, it might be worth a defense cap, like the one discussed here. A maximum 20 defense before modifiers would get rid of a lot of need to defense-maximize, which means I don't need to find as many high-skill foes as possible just to give them a shot at hitting high-DX foes.
We'll see what everyone thinks of these.
This last big fight wasn't ruined by high skill, but I do want to make sure limits mean people know the upper bounded limits of the system. Put the limits in that allow for such a fight as a special occasion skill blowout, but not a defacto basis for character expectations. Skill bosses will still be dangerous, and PCs won't essentially out-DX and out-skill the entire monster catalog . . . with a high cost in character points and fun and a low return on investment in effectiveness within the game.
Sunday, October 4, 2026
DF Felltower - Caps & Limits Draft
This is really an attempt to head off long-term issues before they become a real problem. We're already at a point where PC skills are quite high. Do they need to be higher? I think no - I've talked about why offensively (crazy feints) and defensively (defenses so high foes can only crit fish.)
Here is where I am leaning:
Hard Skill Cap - Stat+10 limit on any/all skills.
If I do this, I may consider a Power-Up that allows you to except the limits. It wouldn't be a perk, sorry, but it would be a limited Power-Up, perhaps capped at 3 levels like a lot of the maxima-exceeding power-ups.
This way a fighter-type has a clear idea of what the most possible skill you'll ever be able to get. That's skill-35 for a thief with maxed out DX, not that anyone runs thieves in my game.
Can foes exceed this? Yeah, of course. Foes can have all sorts of stuff you can't as a PC. Deal with it. Dealing with it is part of the game.
Mundane DB sources don't stack.
Magic DB sources don't stack
This is more of a clarification - I ruled this before again and again but I am concerned people forget it when it matters, especially given the math done by the VTT "helping" us.
You can benefit at most from one source of mundane DB - a shield.
You can benefit at from one source of magical DB - Deflect or Shield spells, in general.
I expect this will generate questions about edge cases, but I honestly can't think of any. Have a shield? Get the shield DB. Have a magic shield? Get the shield DB including Deflect. Have a Shield spell? Get that, instead, if it's higher than your Fortify level on the shield you're wielding.
This was how I'd been runing it for a long time, but I am not sure if the VTT sheets can handle this. And the way my players sometimes count up bonuses by trying to get the net ("I'm +2 for Shield, but -4 for stunning, so I'm at -2") can potentially lead to a double count error (". . . and my magic shield is DB 5 so I'm at a net +3.")
I'm still undecided on fixed-effect Feints and Deceptive Attacks, if only because it gives PCs a fixed target of defenses to aim for, even higher than they generally have now. No one wants to roll less than a 16 for defenses if possible even with situational penalties. It's the downside of a "build" system instead of a class-and-level system without feats. And a Rule of 16 for defenses would be awesome but no one will accept that later in an ongoing campaign when they've worked up to higher defenses.
If my players like this, we'll consider adding another:
Fixed Potion Effects - All +1d6 buff potions are actually +3. Notably this includes Strength and Agility potions.
They'll just work with a flat effect, which will save on potion costs (people down them until they get a good roll) but also mean I don't have to deal with +5 to +6 DX in fights.
Any other limits I should give some thought to?
Here is where I am leaning:
Hard Skill Cap - Stat+10 limit on any/all skills.
If I do this, I may consider a Power-Up that allows you to except the limits. It wouldn't be a perk, sorry, but it would be a limited Power-Up, perhaps capped at 3 levels like a lot of the maxima-exceeding power-ups.
This way a fighter-type has a clear idea of what the most possible skill you'll ever be able to get. That's skill-35 for a thief with maxed out DX, not that anyone runs thieves in my game.
Can foes exceed this? Yeah, of course. Foes can have all sorts of stuff you can't as a PC. Deal with it. Dealing with it is part of the game.
Mundane DB sources don't stack.
Magic DB sources don't stack
This is more of a clarification - I ruled this before again and again but I am concerned people forget it when it matters, especially given the math done by the VTT "helping" us.
You can benefit at most from one source of mundane DB - a shield.
You can benefit at from one source of magical DB - Deflect or Shield spells, in general.
I expect this will generate questions about edge cases, but I honestly can't think of any. Have a shield? Get the shield DB. Have a magic shield? Get the shield DB including Deflect. Have a Shield spell? Get that, instead, if it's higher than your Fortify level on the shield you're wielding.
This was how I'd been runing it for a long time, but I am not sure if the VTT sheets can handle this. And the way my players sometimes count up bonuses by trying to get the net ("I'm +2 for Shield, but -4 for stunning, so I'm at -2") can potentially lead to a double count error (". . . and my magic shield is DB 5 so I'm at a net +3.")
I'm still undecided on fixed-effect Feints and Deceptive Attacks, if only because it gives PCs a fixed target of defenses to aim for, even higher than they generally have now. No one wants to roll less than a 16 for defenses if possible even with situational penalties. It's the downside of a "build" system instead of a class-and-level system without feats. And a Rule of 16 for defenses would be awesome but no one will accept that later in an ongoing campaign when they've worked up to higher defenses.
If my players like this, we'll consider adding another:
Fixed Potion Effects - All +1d6 buff potions are actually +3. Notably this includes Strength and Agility potions.
They'll just work with a flat effect, which will save on potion costs (people down them until they get a good roll) but also mean I don't have to deal with +5 to +6 DX in fights.
Any other limits I should give some thought to?
Sunday, September 27, 2026
What will people learn from the GFS II fighting?
This post is a connected followup to Boss/Worthy/Fodder ranking the GFS II guys.
Meta-gamey concerns I have as a GM
The Master/Gith almost solo'd the whole group, even with them using potions and Great Haste. This was for a few reasons.
One, he was using buffs, too. Missile Shield for one, some spellstones and potions graciously donated by previous delvers for another.
Second, the players didn't have their cleric with them, which meant the Master/Gith wasn't trying to undo Curse over and over, and the PCs - used to constant and immediate healing - had the same problem the Master/Gith did, which was, no one to heal injuries.
Third, he was legitimately boss-level - some very potent advantages, some magical gear, excellent armor, and spells. His skills were also high - experienced PC level skills.
He lost anyway, for a few reasons.
His disadvantages dictated a way to fight and a way to handle the threats of the PC. He couldn't just do the most efficient thing in the moment, although he generally had a lot of good options.
The PCs outnumbered him in the end, and it didn't all that much to take out what forces he could muster to help him. With no one to watch his back, the PCs kept after him tightly, forcing him to hit and move and hit and move until he made a mistake (disads are disadvantageous, it happens) and was taken down.
But still, he managed to kill one PC, and knock out two others, before going down.
My game concern is that the players will react by thinking, well, if DX 25 (!) and Skill 25-28 wasn't enough to overwhelm this guy without taking losses, we need to be at least skill 25-28 before DX potions. Slams didn't work well on this guy because he was very strong for his slight build, so people might start thinking, we also need more strength on everyone. You know, what if - just what if - everyone else got killed and one of the PCs had to solo one of these guys. Better for all concerned that the PC has more skill, more ST, and more DX than this guy, right?
That will work.
But then it means instead of a foe like this being interesting, a foe like this has to become the new baseline. Otherwise, any foe with attacks that work on mundane lines - roll to hit, apply defenses, apply DR on a hit, inflict injury - will likely be total wastes of time. Crit-fishing will still work just fine, but their defenses won't when a skill-30 guy succeeds by 20 on average and their defenses don't even reach 20. In fact, defenses in the mid-teens are rare on foes. 12-13 are more common, and 10-12 more common, still. In an attempt to make a boss (one on many a match for PCs) like this more like a worthy-level foe (one on one a match for a PC), it came mean just about total overkill against everything else. When that happens, as a GM, I really have no choice but to make high skill and high defenses and Feints less or not at all relevant. More trick monsters, less like-on-like challenges for the PCs. This is the Invulnerability Trap I have discussed before.
So I am considering skill-capping. Sure, that means more people pushing to DX 20, but they're going to do that anyway. But DX+10 as a skill cap is on my mind.
Might be seen as unfair, because I won't promise you'll never find a skill-25 guy with DX 14 on the other side, but it might stop people from pouring more and more and more points into a single axis of power and groaning when the adventures present broader axes of demand.
Another possible issue is, we can't do it without (blank.) That might be (our cleric), or (another wizard), or (buff spells on everyone), or (a fountain of DX and ST and Speed potions). It's a dangerous road ahead, for sure, but it's going to be tough if no one is willing to go without a massive amount of buffs. It will become a logistical hurdle to delving in new areas. This I am less concerned by. If PCs achieve overkill by spending thousands of dollars per delver per fight, it'll naturally become a bleed for excess cash. It's annoying as a GM when it means you can't really gauge the strength of the PCs - are they ST 15-20 or more like 21-25 due to potions, or DX 20+ due to potions, or immune to missile fire due to Missile Shield, or are they not? But it's not a problem.
My final concern is the caution trap, which is the two above plus more. If this was so hard here, what about a couple levels down . . . is it worse? Yes. Will that mean people insist on doing to this level what they did to every level above? That is to say, loot it down to the door hinges and not move on until they've "cleared" the level to maximize their point value before taking a further risk? They may. I sincerely hope this teaches them that a forward risk is the way to go - the big loot, the big fun fights, the cool exploration and insight into Felltower's internal logic as rewards for pushing the envelope a bit.
We will see.
Meta-gamey concerns I have as a GM
The Master/Gith almost solo'd the whole group, even with them using potions and Great Haste. This was for a few reasons.
One, he was using buffs, too. Missile Shield for one, some spellstones and potions graciously donated by previous delvers for another.
Second, the players didn't have their cleric with them, which meant the Master/Gith wasn't trying to undo Curse over and over, and the PCs - used to constant and immediate healing - had the same problem the Master/Gith did, which was, no one to heal injuries.
Third, he was legitimately boss-level - some very potent advantages, some magical gear, excellent armor, and spells. His skills were also high - experienced PC level skills.
He lost anyway, for a few reasons.
His disadvantages dictated a way to fight and a way to handle the threats of the PC. He couldn't just do the most efficient thing in the moment, although he generally had a lot of good options.
The PCs outnumbered him in the end, and it didn't all that much to take out what forces he could muster to help him. With no one to watch his back, the PCs kept after him tightly, forcing him to hit and move and hit and move until he made a mistake (disads are disadvantageous, it happens) and was taken down.
But still, he managed to kill one PC, and knock out two others, before going down.
My game concern is that the players will react by thinking, well, if DX 25 (!) and Skill 25-28 wasn't enough to overwhelm this guy without taking losses, we need to be at least skill 25-28 before DX potions. Slams didn't work well on this guy because he was very strong for his slight build, so people might start thinking, we also need more strength on everyone. You know, what if - just what if - everyone else got killed and one of the PCs had to solo one of these guys. Better for all concerned that the PC has more skill, more ST, and more DX than this guy, right?
That will work.
But then it means instead of a foe like this being interesting, a foe like this has to become the new baseline. Otherwise, any foe with attacks that work on mundane lines - roll to hit, apply defenses, apply DR on a hit, inflict injury - will likely be total wastes of time. Crit-fishing will still work just fine, but their defenses won't when a skill-30 guy succeeds by 20 on average and their defenses don't even reach 20. In fact, defenses in the mid-teens are rare on foes. 12-13 are more common, and 10-12 more common, still. In an attempt to make a boss (one on many a match for PCs) like this more like a worthy-level foe (one on one a match for a PC), it came mean just about total overkill against everything else. When that happens, as a GM, I really have no choice but to make high skill and high defenses and Feints less or not at all relevant. More trick monsters, less like-on-like challenges for the PCs. This is the Invulnerability Trap I have discussed before.
So I am considering skill-capping. Sure, that means more people pushing to DX 20, but they're going to do that anyway. But DX+10 as a skill cap is on my mind.
Might be seen as unfair, because I won't promise you'll never find a skill-25 guy with DX 14 on the other side, but it might stop people from pouring more and more and more points into a single axis of power and groaning when the adventures present broader axes of demand.
Another possible issue is, we can't do it without (blank.) That might be (our cleric), or (another wizard), or (buff spells on everyone), or (a fountain of DX and ST and Speed potions). It's a dangerous road ahead, for sure, but it's going to be tough if no one is willing to go without a massive amount of buffs. It will become a logistical hurdle to delving in new areas. This I am less concerned by. If PCs achieve overkill by spending thousands of dollars per delver per fight, it'll naturally become a bleed for excess cash. It's annoying as a GM when it means you can't really gauge the strength of the PCs - are they ST 15-20 or more like 21-25 due to potions, or DX 20+ due to potions, or immune to missile fire due to Missile Shield, or are they not? But it's not a problem.
My final concern is the caution trap, which is the two above plus more. If this was so hard here, what about a couple levels down . . . is it worse? Yes. Will that mean people insist on doing to this level what they did to every level above? That is to say, loot it down to the door hinges and not move on until they've "cleared" the level to maximize their point value before taking a further risk? They may. I sincerely hope this teaches them that a forward risk is the way to go - the big loot, the big fun fights, the cool exploration and insight into Felltower's internal logic as rewards for pushing the envelope a bit.
We will see.
Thursday, September 24, 2026
Boss/Worthy/Fodder ranking the GFS II guys
The group the PCs just fought was:
One Master aka Gith
One Master aka Gith Lichor
Two Master aka Gith Axemen
Twelve ratmen (3 each phase, crystal, slime, and electric)
The PCs? Two knights, a scout, a wizard, and a martial artist, ranging from 343 points to 391 points. The scout at 343 is the only one below 360 points.
How would I rate the enemy based on 250 point characters?
Master/Gith: Boss. Should be able to solo a group of 3-4 250-point characters, at least draw against 5-6 of them.
Lichtor: Worthy. A little tougher than usual, but equal to a single 250-275 point character.
Axemen: Worthy/Fodder border. One on one should lose to any 250 point combatant, and probably edge out a 250 point support character (cleric, thief, etc.)
Ratmen: Fodder. Need to significantly outnumber a 250 point delver to stand a chance of victory; even then heavy losses are almost assured.
You can probably go back to the earlier fights and fill in the gaps - norker brutes are fodder, albiet tough fodder, and trokers are on the worthy/fodder border (worthy-like immunities, fodder-level attacks and defenses.) Golden swordsmen, worthy to worthy+. Obsidian Golems and Iron Spectres? Worthy to worthy+. The PCs managed to - over time - fight their way through a rigged battlefield (Deathtouch floor!) against a nice mix of foes with a variety of attacks. Over time, and a lot of delves and attacks, they wore these guys all down. Total casualties? Apart from the TPK from when they got teleported nude (heh) and captured and expended like so many Created Servants, a not much. Check the graveyard and see who got killed by these guys. Until last session, nobody.
It took a long time, but they ground down everything they faced at this landing of the second Giant Fanatastic Staircase aka GFS. They took home scads of loot.
This most recent fight was very last-stand like. Ambush in an open area, flying opponents vs. flying PCs (well, air-mobile, anyway), lots of magic, the PCs lacking non-potion healing . . . and a boss-level opponent . . . and it still ended up in a victory for the PCs. They won. The enemy suffered 16/16 casualties. The PCs, 3 of 5, only one of who was lasting (slain Duncan.) Call it net 1 out of 5.
I believe they will take some lessons from this.
What will come of this?
I'll go over some of my thoughts in my next post.
One Master aka Gith
One Master aka Gith Lichor
Two Master aka Gith Axemen
Twelve ratmen (3 each phase, crystal, slime, and electric)
The PCs? Two knights, a scout, a wizard, and a martial artist, ranging from 343 points to 391 points. The scout at 343 is the only one below 360 points.
How would I rate the enemy based on 250 point characters?
Master/Gith: Boss. Should be able to solo a group of 3-4 250-point characters, at least draw against 5-6 of them.
Lichtor: Worthy. A little tougher than usual, but equal to a single 250-275 point character.
Axemen: Worthy/Fodder border. One on one should lose to any 250 point combatant, and probably edge out a 250 point support character (cleric, thief, etc.)
Ratmen: Fodder. Need to significantly outnumber a 250 point delver to stand a chance of victory; even then heavy losses are almost assured.
You can probably go back to the earlier fights and fill in the gaps - norker brutes are fodder, albiet tough fodder, and trokers are on the worthy/fodder border (worthy-like immunities, fodder-level attacks and defenses.) Golden swordsmen, worthy to worthy+. Obsidian Golems and Iron Spectres? Worthy to worthy+. The PCs managed to - over time - fight their way through a rigged battlefield (Deathtouch floor!) against a nice mix of foes with a variety of attacks. Over time, and a lot of delves and attacks, they wore these guys all down. Total casualties? Apart from the TPK from when they got teleported nude (heh) and captured and expended like so many Created Servants, a not much. Check the graveyard and see who got killed by these guys. Until last session, nobody.
It took a long time, but they ground down everything they faced at this landing of the second Giant Fanatastic Staircase aka GFS. They took home scads of loot.
This most recent fight was very last-stand like. Ambush in an open area, flying opponents vs. flying PCs (well, air-mobile, anyway), lots of magic, the PCs lacking non-potion healing . . . and a boss-level opponent . . . and it still ended up in a victory for the PCs. They won. The enemy suffered 16/16 casualties. The PCs, 3 of 5, only one of who was lasting (slain Duncan.) Call it net 1 out of 5.
I believe they will take some lessons from this.
What will come of this?
I'll go over some of my thoughts in my next post.
Tuesday, September 22, 2026
This much loot was always in Felltower.
Loot recently has had a big uptick in Felltower. It had a rep for being a stingy place, and I always argued this was because of how it was explored, not stocked.*
These last few delves are proving my point. The issue was often the PCs being risk averse - how can we find just enough loot to make our loot thresholds for XP with the minimum risk? They didn't go in saying, how can we find the most net loot, even if the risk means we spend some of it on healing and resurrection and replacing gear and potions? I understand the very old-school ideal of performing executions not fighting battles, but it made for a less adventurous grind.
The PCs ground down everything in every area, in Felltower and in the attached areas - Caves of Chaos, the Brotherhood Complex, the Lost City, and the Cold Fens - until not a coin that could be found was left behind. Only now are they putting on their big boy pants and wading into the hellscale of death and unfair wandering damage that are the lower levels.
And they're winning fights, even when they show up without a cleric and foolishly leave their wizard near someone with skill enough to take out a DX-boosted DX-monster with Great Haste. The loot? It's practically obscene.
People have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around. They're running out of things to buy. Why?
Because the loot down there is very, very good. Yeah, you might have to face a beholder and a packed of gargoyles. Or ranks of trorkers, norker brutes, Gith, golden swordsmen, rat-men, and constructs in a low sanctity zone. But then you walk out with multiple pieces of jewelry that each would meet your loot threshold for the group, and multiple magical items, and rare potions that you cannot purchase, and so on.
The danger multiplies as you delve deeper but the loot multiplies, too.
So does the fun. It's been a long time since anyone griped about wasting a Sunday doing basically nothing. They walk out of fights saying, "Whew!" and gleefully pouring over the loot.
It's high-risk high-reward. The low-risk low-reward won't do it, won't matter, and won't be fun.
So yeah, the look has spiked up with the risk. It was there the whole time. I'd been behind my screen watching people tiptoe around a winnable but brutal fight with $20K per person in loot behind it saying how they needed to find some place to make loot and it was too dangerous here.
Now they're taking their guys into the real Felltower. The top was the preliminaries. The gate level was a lot of fun and still a lot of fun. But more than half of what I wrote for Felltower is down below . . . along with a lot of the answers to questions that came up all the way back in 2011-12 during the Caves of Chaos.
I'm enjoying the reveals. And I'm glad people are willing to bet their paper men that they can win the fights, take the loot, and find out the answers.
* Well, as initially stocked, it was too low. But I corrected that quickly and did not add to but rather multiplied the amount of loot to what it is now. But that's for the top levels. These loot piles down here? Some of them were always that big . . .
These last few delves are proving my point. The issue was often the PCs being risk averse - how can we find just enough loot to make our loot thresholds for XP with the minimum risk? They didn't go in saying, how can we find the most net loot, even if the risk means we spend some of it on healing and resurrection and replacing gear and potions? I understand the very old-school ideal of performing executions not fighting battles, but it made for a less adventurous grind.
The PCs ground down everything in every area, in Felltower and in the attached areas - Caves of Chaos, the Brotherhood Complex, the Lost City, and the Cold Fens - until not a coin that could be found was left behind. Only now are they putting on their big boy pants and wading into the hellscale of death and unfair wandering damage that are the lower levels.
And they're winning fights, even when they show up without a cleric and foolishly leave their wizard near someone with skill enough to take out a DX-boosted DX-monster with Great Haste. The loot? It's practically obscene.
People have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around. They're running out of things to buy. Why?
Because the loot down there is very, very good. Yeah, you might have to face a beholder and a packed of gargoyles. Or ranks of trorkers, norker brutes, Gith, golden swordsmen, rat-men, and constructs in a low sanctity zone. But then you walk out with multiple pieces of jewelry that each would meet your loot threshold for the group, and multiple magical items, and rare potions that you cannot purchase, and so on.
The danger multiplies as you delve deeper but the loot multiplies, too.
So does the fun. It's been a long time since anyone griped about wasting a Sunday doing basically nothing. They walk out of fights saying, "Whew!" and gleefully pouring over the loot.
It's high-risk high-reward. The low-risk low-reward won't do it, won't matter, and won't be fun.
So yeah, the look has spiked up with the risk. It was there the whole time. I'd been behind my screen watching people tiptoe around a winnable but brutal fight with $20K per person in loot behind it saying how they needed to find some place to make loot and it was too dangerous here.
Now they're taking their guys into the real Felltower. The top was the preliminaries. The gate level was a lot of fun and still a lot of fun. But more than half of what I wrote for Felltower is down below . . . along with a lot of the answers to questions that came up all the way back in 2011-12 during the Caves of Chaos.
I'm enjoying the reveals. And I'm glad people are willing to bet their paper men that they can win the fights, take the loot, and find out the answers.
* Well, as initially stocked, it was too low. But I corrected that quickly and did not add to but rather multiplied the amount of loot to what it is now. But that's for the top levels. These loot piles down here? Some of them were always that big . . .
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