Mo's player mentioned that Mo (his momma call him Kle) has Dodge 14.
How is that, exactly?
Pretty simple:
Speed 6 gives a base Dodge of 9.
No Encumbrance is -0.
Combat Reflexes is +1 to all Active Defenses, for a 10.
He carries a Medium Shield (DB 2), for a 12.
And he has Extra Option (Beefcake Protection), giving him a +2 for full nudity, for a 14.
So Mo's shield-enhanced Dodge is 14.
It makes him hard to hit, and his natural DR makes him hard to hurt with minor attacks, which is how he survives in combat even with Committed Attack as his base move, which drops his Dodge to a more-reasonable 12.
Still, 12 means he succeeds more than he fails.
area of effect attacks. mental attacks. make him defend a squishy.
ReplyDeleteIt's really no challenge to hurt him, honestly. This is pretty much what he does well - avoid attacks outright, shrug off minor wounds.
DeleteLast session, despite this, he was rolling to avoid immediate death. Yet he prevailed, and that was a great game story we'll bring up often.
That raises two interesting points. Almost as soon as I had commented, I remembered that 14- on 3d6 is hardly automatic. It's just good. It would be like AC 2 or 3 in D&D. So trying to harm him is not unusually hard.
DeleteAdditionally, I don't think it's really the DM's job to try to screw someone who invests a lot in one strategy, so maybe I was wrong to even say anything.
The thing you just brought up - the joy of death and near death - is an interesting philosophical chestnut for me. TPK and near-death stories are the wines we tell over and over, why are we so hesitant to give player-characters that experience?
Because when it happens too often it becomes the whines of Player experience... and it isn't enjoyable.
DeleteSee... there is a big difference between "often narrowly avoiding defeat" and "never avoiding defeat". Some people fear the later so much the stridently avoiding getting near it.
Personally I like the stories that are "and there I was now where that danger, solving this thing over here..."
But then I play specialists and support types more often than not.
Well, my game is pretty much a constant series of near-death experiences for the PCs. This is just how one PC has made it through so many delves and so many fights keeping it (mostly) a near-death and not a death experience. It's part of the way the game works at my table - I put out things that could kill them, they make up PCs within the rules that can survive that, and we roll the dice to see how it works out. I just see this as a good example of that from the player's end - how you can make a defensively sound near-berserker within the rules set and allowed options.
DeleteI did that in gwythaint's PbP game with a Barbarian Ogress... 10/12 DR (Tough Skin/Tough Skin, Crushing Only).
DeleteHe allowed her (she has more DR than almost every other character) only because even though she can do fantabulous amounts of damage with her one-handed axe/mace (5d+7 cut/5d+9 cr) but she prefers to use her hands and just rip arms, legs, and heads off (3d+3 cut)... and she's learned the hard lesson about always touching enemies (but still does it, she's slow).
If she ever gets the money to buy armor for herself... oh boy.
I'd be happy if we had someone doing 5d+7 cutting. Actually, I'd allow most anything that fits within the templates and races I allow. DR 10 tough skin? That will help you survive some of the fights, for sure. But plenty of foes have contact poison, Cosmic attacks that ignore DR, armor divisors like (2) and (5), and so on. Your ogress would be a useful combatant in Felltower.
DeleteIn Felltower she'd definitely be raising Axe/Mace rather than Wrestling... you sling more "Do Not Touch" foes than my GM has so far. She'd still grapple enemies, but those would be the "Happy Fun Time" foes like Orcs, Gobbos, Rockworms.. not Wights, Acid Slimes, etc.
DeleteMo is far from invulnerable. He is a holy terror to mid-level foes who use weapons and shields. Move 7 and Flail-18 with Deceptive-2 makes that a -4 Block -6 Parry -2 Dodge on a 16 or less. Put him against someone with high weapon skill like Sterik or Vryce and he gets eviscerated and can't hit them. He was built to plow through orcs and then brain their wizards (he also has Cleaving Strike, so hitting 3 targets for one All-Out Attack is also on the table).
ReplyDeleteHis limits get revealed often- diffuse foes (he carries Alchemist Fire), things without brains or skulls, etc. The Phase serpents were a tough fight. He was crit fishing until Hasdrubel(RIP) electrocuted a bunch of them with an explosive lightning bolt.
Mo is raising Bow and all weapon skills for now, then he'll max ST and get Resistance to Poison, Great Rage, Naked Rage, Focused Fury, etc.
All true. As much as an effective, shield-enhanced Dodge of 14 sounds high, it's not. Like I said, it's usually a 12 (once Mo goes Enraged and has to Committed Attack), and also, a 12 or less to defend in Dungeon Fantasy isn't great. Hayden the Unnamed Knight started with a Parry 14 not counting his shield, 16 with it, and a similar Block.
DeleteIt's not so much me saying, here, "OMG Mo is so Dodgy and invulnerable, what do I do?" as it is me saying, "Here is how Mo got really good at the one defense he's really good at." Like most barbarians, he's a bit lacking on the defensive front and attempts to make up for it in sheer HP and ST.
Can Barbarians learn Shield Wall Training and use Large shields?
ReplyDeleteSure, it's a general power-up.
DeleteWait, he's fully nude? With a flail?
ReplyDeleteThe jokes just write themselves...
He's technically clothed in a skimpy front-only loincloth, potion belt, and delver's webbing, not fully nude. But we give him credit for it anyway. He's like an underdressed Zed.
Delete