Felltower is a hybrid DF/DFRPG game.
That basically means we use the DFRPG rulebooks as far as they go for rules, costs, etc. But we supplement them out with the other GURPS books that include things we've already had in DF. We also pull in new material from new DF books (say, DF22: Twists) as needed. It's a mishmash.
So what to do with Delvers to Grow?
Can a player make a "Fast Hero," or "Smart Hero," or "Strong Hero," and run that character in DF Felltower?
No.
No more than they could make a Squire and tack on a 125-point upgrade from DF15 and run that character. They are all off-list.
In my experience, allowing such as an add-on means a handful of players who have the time and inclination to iteratively make characters and think about some pre-planned route to Ultimate Power will make guys this way. They'll figure out some sneaky way to combine a few Power-Ups and benefits of a template with another and make some kind of hybrid character that gets the best of both worlds for their specific aim. The guys with less time, or who focus on the gameplay instead of the chargen, will be left out. I will inevitably have to dedicate more of my time to the systems and question-response of guys kitbashing new templates. That, to me, defeats the purpose of allowing them.
We will use some of the bits of DtG in DF Felltower, though. But which bits?
Many of the Power-Ups are just renamed existing powers. I suppose I could allow you to take "Fifth Level Fighter" instead of Extra Attack 1, but why deal with two names for one ability? It is really just the New Advantages (pp. 33-35) that are of true interest since we're not using the core of the supplement.
Here are the ones I have specific thoughts on. The others are largely just DF approaches ported over to DFRPG.
Herbaceous Master - this might go a good way toward making druids a little more AD&D-ish, and have healing and not just nature and animal powers. Under strong consideration.
Heroic Spellslinger - No. This doesn't fit the vibe of Felltower at all.
Master at Arms - I like this, a lot. It's been revised since the first draft I've seen. It's under strong consideration, but I need to play with the math. It's trivial to have 25 points spread over 4 skills (Brawling, Wrestling, one melee weapon, one missile weapon or Shield) and then it's always better to buy this up than to buy up those skills. I've proposed a couple of variant, limited Felltower-only versions of these, but despite supposedly great interest I've had exact zero comments on them. Still under strong consideration. Probably would be limited to the templates that could get it in DtG - the "strong" delvers.
Rapid Switch - no. We have Quick-Sheathe and Fast-Draw that, in combination, do this already. Bad enough it works 98.1% of the time, I don't need to make it cheaper and 100%.
Scroll Scriblling - no. I think it makes making a quick "Universal Scroll" to transfer casting costs and critically maintainence costs and penalties to a non-caster much too cheap.
Soul Warding - interesting. I think this is a good one for Clerics and Holy Warriors.
Vanishing Act - yeah, I've had some rules in effect for this for thieves for a long time. Galoob the thief did this in a fight years and years ago.
Walking Armoury - NO. Totally does not fit the vibe of Felltower, and players already "forget" about weapons when they're inconvenient. They'll crawl down tunnels, backflip through small gaps, drop prone and roll to avoid blows, and then stand up and one-second ready a 7' harpoon on a line conveniently already lanyarded to a belt and throw it. Do I want to expand that nonsense to weight?
Weapon Master (Missile Spells) - No. I don't think this is a good idea unless you're playing Gauntlet. The only Gauntlet-like thing in Felltower is "Wizard is about to die."
Wrestling Master - doesn't make sense given our version of the TG rules. I may have to tweak it so it does.
So that's the look so far. Some of these may show up, depending on how it all falls out.
For what it's worth, it should be ("should be") somewhat difficult to sit down and find a route to "ultimate power" because these combos are mostly taken from "what do folks normally choose?"
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons I went with Kevin as author is specifically because the "total optimization game" infuriates him.
Should and probably is for DtG, but I was speaking more broadly of DtG and DF15. I prefer not to find out if, yes, you can - or make some specialized version of a template that isn't quite what I had in mind for our game.
DeleteYour example of the antics at walking armory made me laugh in agreement. I've had the same stuff in actual D&D. We were playing B4 Lost City and fell in a pit on the 3rd dungeon level (after weeks of play). Immediately after the player of the 3' tall halfling told the DM he pulls out his 10' pole that nobody had noticed him carrying despite weeks of adventuring underground in tight spaces and starts probing the floor ahead of the party. That did not fly. In a Halloween one shot I ran I let the players bring characters from their regular campaign and only asked to inspect their magic to make sure nothing sketchy was going on. In the final room one of the fighters told me he wanted to fill some deep carved grooves with oil. I calculated it would require something like 26 flasks of oil and he said he'd mark them off his sheet. 26 flasks of oil on a character who had been smashed and crashed and burned? Turns out he had 50 pint flasks of oil because they are cheap, low encumbrance, and I only said they couldn't bring inappropriate amounts of magic. Grrrr!!!!
ReplyDeleteSame - laughing in agreement.
DeleteMy personal "favorite" isn't the guy with six swords or a 10' pole, it's the guy with the potions, oil flasks, scrolls, etc. which are a) protected by his armor and b) easily accessible and c) sealed against anything - sand, water, air, etc. But they're both bad.
I use a lot of DF15 combinations in my game; a lot of incoming players are new to GURPS but have a character concept best handled in that way.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad to hear that. I'm very proud of DF15, and what it can do, even though I really only ever us it for allies and hirelings.
DeleteI'm surprised by the dismissal of Heroic Spellslinger and Weapon Master (Missile Spells) not necessarily because I think they're a great fit (though they don't seem at all out of genre to me) but because I thought you would be overjoyed for Wizards to consider using ~50 points to do something other than add 50 spells to their character sheet so they can waste time looking through them all for solutions to every problem. Plus I feel like the hasdrubals etc of the world (Barcas?) were generally missile specialists already.
ReplyDeleteIt's a flavor thing. It just doesn't fit the campaign . . . and it's a mighty big switch to add on now. I'd need to go back and retroactively put it on NPCs and make foes that utilize it, listen to reasonable gripes of players of existing wizards who don't want to sit around saving up points to get them, and other hassles of that sort, as well.
DeleteBut mainly, it just doesn't fit how wizards are supposed to feel in DF Felltower. They shouldn't be missile spell machine guns. This is why no one has Magic Bolt, either - it's flat-out banned for the same reason.
I always thought that the Wrestler from Pyramid 3/111 would be interesting to play in Felltower. Dwarf Wrestler, stripped down TG rules, as long as the player really knew those rules, would be a blast. Survivable? Hard to say, though they are almost as tough as Barbarians.
ReplyDeleteNot on the list, but if you consider Wrestling Master, maybe it can make its way there.