The actual "what's next" plan involved AD&D and A2. But the next GURPS is really the question, here.
What's to do in the Cold Fens:
- explore more. A hard way to earn cash but an easy way to get 1-2 xp.
- find the dragon's lair. Believed to be in some ruins. Ties into the above.
- go after the giant brothers. The group is hoping they're blinded and dead, but somehow their treasure is left unclaimed. Maybe. Perhaps they're fine, and their treasure is too . . . but round 2 will be a hard fight for both sides as they both can come more prepared.
What's do in Felltower:
- the usual list of no-goes. Gates, explore deeper, fight the beholder, fight the dragon(s), go down to the level with the killing floor.
- kill the draugr.
- kill the cloakers, "behir," Big John the troll, and others who must have loot because reasons.
Overall, I'm not sure where the PCs see their opportunities. The lack of exploration has killed the rumor total, and the pool gets smaller - unless you explore more, there isn't much new "Oh, hey, that reminds me . . . " knowledge to be had. Or pseudo-knowledge, as rumors generally are.
From the outside, I wonder, does it seem like there are other possibilities? I think the campaign is still going fine, but that to a degree the players can't see the forest for the trees and the trees for the forest. So much has happened and so much gone and forgotten . . .
You could just have the trees kill them rather than worrying about their perspective regarding them.
ReplyDeleteBeen there, done that.
DeleteThey need to somehow get after Mungo sometime
ReplyDeleteExactly. Mungo and the Trolls are a Known Known so to speak, one they know the weaknesses of and know how Mungo is pulling off his "fire immunity" trick, so dealing with them is firmly in their bailiwick.
DeleteI've mentioned they should go deal with them a few times over the years as well.
They have as well, but usually push it to "later" because of the difficulty of getting a group in underwater.
DeleteAh, Ulf has Breathe Water-19 now, and can have it at 20 for a point, if I recall correctly, which will let him maintain it for free. Of course, he doesn't know how to swim. But he has some interest in destroying evil, nasty, trolls. Flaming Weapon for all his friends who wield metal weapons! Crogar totally should have bought an all-metal axe. C'est la vie.
DeleteI suspect it'll go from "we can't go, Ulf can't swim and only has a 19" to "we have Breathe Water-20, we should explore every inch of water" rather than "let's get Mungo!"
DeleteEh, this could happen. We need to get total buy-in for that mission. But Ulf will definitely learn to swim if the group wants to go there.
Delete"We need to get total buy-in for that mission."
DeleteThat's the downside to a large group - you guys really do need total buy-in, but that means 6+ people need to think this is the single best thing to do right now. And since 3+ people per session generally feel like "anything sort-of new" is better, that wins most of the time. You could get to Mungo *without* Breathe Water or learning to swim. It's been done before. It could be done again, but at least a couple of people each session have something else they'd rather do.
This isn't really meant as a criticism, just a fact of large group with a single-delver veto approach. It's hard to find the one thing you all can do and all want to do, at the same time.
This is tricky. Most of the interesting stuff that is left has frustrated or killed previous groups of delvers that were as tough or tougher than this group. If they start going for that stuff they might win more than they lose, but TPKs and near TPKs are quite likely, and as soon as that that happens it's back to extreme caution.
ReplyDeleteThis is not my game, but if I was running something like this and wanted to see the tough encounters on the table I'd have some powerful entity pull back some of the more powerful deceased delvers from the void and equip them so I had a party of 400+ pointers with good equipment, then as a condition of their continued existence send them on a quest to get something on the other side of Mungo, or in the big Dragon's lair, or whatever.
I don't think you should underestimate the strength of the current group. While some of them are somewhat lower point, we used to have ~5-6 PCs with a mix of 400+ point guys and 250-300 point guys. Now we have ~6-9 PCs with a mix of 400+ point guys and mostly 300-350 point guys. They've got a solid amount of magic items, a lot of consumables, a lot more ready cash, and a broad array of powers. It used to be 2 front line fighters, maybe a 3rd with Raggi, and an NPC hireling cleric, and now it's routinely 4-5 front-line fighters, an exceptionally good scout, a full-out PC cleric, etc.
DeleteI'm not going to have a deus ex machina to give people back their old PCs - they have practically unlimited do-overs at $15K a pop (although they usually cheap out to $5K and extra disadvantages). It's tough that they lost a large amount of a heavily equipped group against the beholder, but they have a lot of stuff now . . . and demonstrably can defeat foes that earlier group could not or would not.
Giving them back old PCs and old equipment just so I could experience big fights . . . eh, why even make the game risky if you can reload from a save game?
The draugr seem a good choice, last time they fought the draugr they didn't win but they fought the good fight. They are stronger now and they have Galen.
DeleteAttack the ork camp with a siege tower. After reading acoup I have how learned how important siege towers are to let your archers fire down upon the enemy, putting Galen on top of a siege tower seems a great tactic. Hire some hirelings to push it into position. The top of the tower is big enough for more than just Galen so see if Deadeye Slim is available
Galen lays down fire as tower is pushed into position then deploy the ramp for melee guys to get party started
>>"why even make the game risky if you can reload from a save game?"
DeleteYou have said repeatedly that you and your crew really enjoy the brutal nature of this game. That is great. I wish I had players who wanted more of that sort of thing myself.
HOWEVER, you have also said repeatedly that your players are too risk averse. Why are they being timid if danger is the goal?
What do they say when you directly ask them why they aren't making runs at Mungo, the big Dragon, the Beholder, the Reaver, etc?
Some variation of "not yet." It's not all of them, and not always the same people each time . . . and it only takes one or two people saying no to push something off until they are "ready."
DeleteThat's also why I've had a number of one-chance encounters, because if you don't take the risk now, you don't get the reward ever. It's an attempt at applying a cost to perpetual risk aversion.
Ulf certainly would like to go after the Draugr again. Especially if Heyden takes the Holy Warrior Lens--he could be extremely, extremely effective (and Ulf would be likely to buff him up as well).
DeleteInsofar as the Beholder is concerned, when the group is ready to do that, Ulf is pretty interested in doing that. His Innate Attack with Sunbolt is at 20, so he'd probably invest points into bumping that up before we go, activate Heroic Grace, and he'll try to wipe out that baddie with things that his anti-magic ray doesn't affect. Not sure when we can convince folks to do that, though. And probably he should cast Resist Thoughts on people also (not sure if that will cancel out mind-affecting Beholder eye rays).
What's Ulf think about Orks?
DeleteThe siege tower isn't a reasonable possibility. They'd need to construct one on-site outside of the orc's camp, without being assaulted in the process . . . or somehow transport one through narrow dungeon passageways and so on. They wall they encountered when they pushed through way back when was facing the dungeon entrance (exit, to the PCs) . . . they'd have to sit in the killing zone building.
DeleteGetting the orks to sortie out of their fort to assault siege tower construction operations sounds like a total win
DeleteThey wouldn't even need to sortie to destroy the construction. They could pretty casually destroy it without real risk.
DeleteAh, that does make it more an issue, something to try and figure out then
DeleteMy thoughts may be much too utilitarian.
ReplyDeleteIf you wish to avoid a TPK of experienced delvers, and content is locked behind potential TPK events, put together a team of fresh delvers. There are problems that might be put away if things go right, and if you TPK, you are only out the opportunity cost of the session. Is a session's worth of CP added to a high CP char, that you aren't willing to risk doing cool things, really that high in value?
In particular, the orcs have an outside camp potentially accessible through overland travel. Find it again with new wilderness types in the party, then start sessions of sending wilderness/assassin teams. Pick off enough magic users, you can eventually destroy the camp. Then maybe you can permanently open the things that they closed.
There is the lost city in the jungle.
Maybe look into permanently exorcising spite guy before he comes back.
For the cold fens, I always liked the idea of artificer, sage, or inn keeper for crafting skills. Setting up a workshop to make boats as a PC. Or, outright mine a passage into the interior temple of that lizard place.
If you are playing Cold Fens with disposable parties, you can outright make an evil team, make unholy water, and go see if anything is new. Not sure what the benefit would be, but...
I think there are also some untried gates.
If one really wanted to brute force things, each player prepares several new PCs, themed for one of several planned delves. Start off with the characters designed for delve one, go to that location, delve hard and fast until TPK, then try to get whatever survivors out fast. Repeat for the next delve on the list, with the next party. If the players are efficient enough, they could knock out several delves per session. The profit would be OOC knowledge, possible lasting damage to enemies, and whatever PCs and IC knowledge survive, at a lower opportunity cost in sessions spent.
Those might be useful suggestions to the players - we'll see what they think when they comment to me on the comments!
DeleteIn my opinion, one of the reasons for your players to be timid is a lack of events, happening in the setting outside ofPCs control (at least known to them events). So there is no need to hurry up and do risky things - thay could always do them later.
ReplyDeleteBut what if something happens, that change their plans and force them to choose more risky behavior? For example, the Crusade to the wildlands may start, or orcish army could besiege Stericksburg, or a dragon could attack it, or an (evil?) adventuring party could begin to loot Felltower, or some alchemist could suggest high reward for quickly delivered dragon blood, or something else...
I have some thoughts on this I'll try to get up into a post this week.
Delete